Genealogy Chat

Jo, this is definitely her then, died Dec Qtr 1918, we had her born 1867, but not a problem, it happened.

Is she in a common grave? Could he tell you the other people in there? You are entitled to put a marker or memorial there if they allow it. I have done it with a family member of mine in a common grave. I just wanted it marked with his name. It won't be cheap, unfortunately, cos they all have to conform to safety regulations nowadays.

Or is she in a family grave, i.e. other members of the family in there. He should be able to tell you that. You won't have any statutory entitlements to the grave after so long, I am sure, most last for a maximum of 70 years, some less, so if it is a family grave you would have to "repurchase it" in order to have anyone else buried in it after so long, assuming there is room. They should be able to tell you all that.

I am so glad you have found her, and we will work on those half siblings of your grandad shortly.

Can folks help in any way on what I have already done? I am not convinced I have got it 100%.

And thanks to Janey for coming to the rescue when I asked her to.

Joanne's grandad lost a leg in WW1. So he is a man we are all proud of.

She was buried on the 13/11/1918 at Shaw cemetery Newbury she was 49 years young. A great guy called Bob even went to see if there was a headstone for me but apparently not. I said I was most keen to visit and he said ring him anytime and he would arrange to be there for me. He even said as family if we wanted to we could put some sort of marker for her!! although not usual after such a long time. What wonderful people there are out there yourselves included. Still waiting on birth certs and wondering which bit to do next. I am going to visit my dad tomorrow and fill him in on the latest. thanks again and please keep helping. Love Jo

Hi. Well lets try again for 5 minutes, couldn't believe I have been set up again, went to a friends to get back online to you all only to have her power pack go bang on me and fuse everything in the house. Is someone trying to tell me to stop looking any further I wonder. Anyway news to date: Did as was requested and got in touch with 2 people on here that had Emily on there tree. 1 of them was most kind and opened his tree to me but unfortunately there is nothing on the page, but he did write and say that he was related to Albert - his ggg grandmother was Alberts mother. I really hope this is our Emily this time and if it is I rang the council at Newbury and was given a cemetery and a plot number

Hi my friends!!!! I promise to be back with you all as soon as possible. All this news is amazing thank you thank you thankyou. Happy Easter Love Jo

Just to inform folks, Joanne is still having computer trouble but seems able to get to PMs, not sure why, so I am filling her in with our findings.

Looking forward to hearing how it all works out. Cx.

Dear all, ain't it great to give someone so much pleasure. Beats filling in tax returns!

Hi to all my wonderful helpers and a big hello and thanks to Jane, so the troops have been called in Ha! how amazing. So you probably think Iv'e left you all to get on with it when in fact my bleep laptop has blown a gasket!!! typical timing. Cannot get it looked at till Tuesday. Am on a friends for 2 minutes to ask you please please do not give up on me I am still trying to take in all you have written. i promise to try and come here tomorrow to re-read everything. Wouldn' that be just fantastic if we found living relatives, Wow eeeeee!!!! thanks again HAPPY EASTER to you all Jo

It was me who deleted, I hadn't worded it well so started again.

Yes Cynthia, I appreciate your comments about the amount of information, but I get the impression Joanne wants to gather as much as she can for her dad. Joanne, please shout out if you want extra help in understanding it all - or if you want me to keep my nose out, and do it yourself (I won't be offended).

Not done terribly well with the half-cousins.

Child of Ella Louisa Belcher and Ernest Raymond:

Dennis Raymond 1925 Newbury. Sadly looks as though he died in 1996.

Ella Louisa Belcher and Robert J Turner had no children.

EDIT - rubbish, she married Ernest Raymond.

Alice May Belcher and William J Stevens are a problem as there are clearly multiple marriages of Miss Belchers to Mr Stevens's.

Probables:

Leslie R Stevens, 1928 Wallingford. Possible death in Oxfordshire 2004.
Edna M Stevens, 1931 Wallingford. Possible marriage to James B Munn, 1952, Wallingford. No death found, so possibly still alive.

Child of George Henry Belcher and Ruby A Taylor:

Arthur J Belcher 1940 Newbury, no death found so likely still alive. In fact, Jo, he's the best bet if you want to contact any of this lot as he's relatively young, though of course that might mean he doesn't know so much about his grandparents.

I'm stopping there to Jo gets back.

Who deleted?? Did Madmeg botch it, did Joanne come and go, was somebody talkin about moi? ;)

I didn't pursue the children last night because it was very late, even here, and I wanted to see thoughts about the theory before setting off.

With a bit of luck, we really should be able to find cousins of Joanne's dad's generation still living, since their parents would all have been younger than Joanne's dad's father!

I think I would actually start with the tree search here at GR -- allowing a couple of years' leeway on the birthdates in each case, since the people who have Ella Belcher and Emily Rivers don't seem to have had the exact info. People with Emily's children in their tree would seem likely to be Emily's descendants!

Joanne, have you done tree searches before? Just click on the "Search Trees" button up above, enter a name and year of birth, select +/- 2 years, and don't put a place of birth, because people's ideas on that seem to vary. The results list will be short, since these are not Smiths, and you'll be able to tell which ones are yours by the places of birth shown.

Then you click on the "Find out more" button beside the name of the tree owner, to send a message. It is generally recommended that you unclick the box for allowing access to your tree, since you don't yet know your connection with the person. Just explain that you are a great-grandchild of Emiiy Rivers who you think later married Alfred Belcher and you and your dad are eager to meet family members.

Jo, we are now trying to finding "half cousins" of your dad - he and they all share the same grandmother, Emily Rivers, though a different grandfather (we assume).

I struggled a bit to find the Belcher marriages, till I remembered that Joseph had a middle name, and so do the others:

William Albert, born Wantage, couple of possible marriages.
Ella Louisa, born Wantage m Ernest Raymond 1924, Newbury, died 1970 Newbury.

Others born at Newbury:

Minnie Florence (died 1905, Florence Minnie).
Agnes Jane m Alfred M Emmens 1932, died 1996 Reading.
Alice May m William J Stevens 1927, died 1985 Reading.
George Henry m Ruby A Taylor, 1931 Newbury.
Arthur James - 4 possible marriages.

Jo, I can give you more detail later on some of these e.g. exact dates of birth.

It was a good idea to bring in Sherlock, Meg. Let's hope Joanne can get to grips with it all because it's all fairly mesmerising.


As for you JC.............. :P back!! Cx.

Just noticed she's made brother Henry younger too.

Well, folks, it was moi who "invited" Janey, I know when to call in the experts.

What do I think - well, she's solved it (although I did give her all the "clues" first!).

I'll pm Jo, cos I think she thinks we've given up.

Perhaps I missed a bit out, cos we believe Alfred Rivers married Martha Weavens/Weavings, and not Prior as it seems on the 1871.

So, while Janie is asleep.......

Never mind your 'thoughts' on me, you. :P (that's an outstuck tongue, fyi)

I got a PM from somebody wondering what I might think of all this. I just took what was here and put it all together! At my own leisure, with all of you slumbering.

So? Whaddaya think?

Joanne, in case you are now wondering what's going on, let me introduce you to 'our Janey', a doyenne of GR!! She is one of the best researchers we have; is feisty but goooooood and she will put me firmly back in my place for saying so! lol Cx


ps - she's also in Canada - hence the timescale thingey.

If so, did she fib about her age to be younger than her husband? ;)


1911

BELCHER ALBERT E 1871 40 Newbury Berkshire
BELCHER EMILY 1872 39
BELCHER ELLA 1898 13
BELCHER WILLIAM 1898 13
BELCHER AGNES 1903 8
BELCHER ALICE 1905 6
BELCHER GEORGE 1907 4
BELCHER ARTHUR 1909 2


*If* that is the right Emily, this certainly gives a lot of names for offspring, to find their offspring, search trees at GR, etc.

... I did a really quickie search for Ella Belcher, and 2 people have Ella 1898 Wantage in their trees here at GR. The same two people have Emily Rivers 1872 Kinston Lisle, Berks. As we know, there was no such birth; that info is taken from the late censuses.


And *if* so:


Name: Emily Belcher
Death Registration Month/Year: 1918
Age at death (estimated): 49 = dob c1869
Registration district: Newbury
Inferred County: Berkshire
Volume: 2c
Page: 677

(and no death to match a later birthdate)


Thoughts? ;)


If I'm on the money, the children of Emily Rivers and Albert Belcher were half-siblings of Joseph Rivers.

The children of those children will be cousins of Joseph's son, Joanne's dad, if I'm following properly?


The Belcher-Rivers marriage certificate is needed to try to confirm this theory. But again, if I'm following properly, Emily Rivers's parents were unmarried -- so the question would be whether a father is named on the marriage certificate. Witness names and the parties' addresses could help too, though.

-- edit -- I got that wrong, both her parents are known, it's just that there's some controversy over her mother's birth surname. So the identity of the Emily Rivers on the marriage certificate should be verifiable by the father's name.


Joanne, did you get the web address for FreeBMD here? I think so, but just in case:

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

The marriages of the Belcher-Rivers children might not be transcribed yet, in which case Ancestry can be checked. Ancestry will certainly be needed for their children -- your dad's generation. I'm assuming that he would like to know, if he has cousins who are children of his father's half-siblings?

*IF* this theory is correct!

So I've been invited to have a look here. Hello all!

The only thing I can think of contributing at this point is -- I wonder whether this is the Albert Belcher who married an Emily Rivers in 1897 in Wantage reg dist?

In 1901:

Name: Albert Belcher
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1871
>> Relation: Prisoner
>> Where born: Wantage, Berkshire, England
>> Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Bricklayer's Labourer

Civil parish: St John
Town: Devizes
County/Island: Wiltshire
Registration district: Devizes
>> ED, institution, or vessel: His Majestys Prison


This is undoubtedly that Albert's wife in 1901:


Name: Emily Belcher
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Relation: Head
Where born: Kingston Lisle, Berkshire, England

Civil parish: Cold Ash
Town: Cold Ash
County/Island: Berkshire
Registration district: Newbury

Emily Belcher 29
William Belcher 4
Ella Belcher 3
Minnie Belcher 1
>> Henry Rivers 26


... Not a great match ...

--- but actually:

No Emily Rivers was born in Berkshire 1867-1874 except our Emily Rivers.

Kingstone Lisle and Woolstone are both in Faringdon reg dist, about 2 miles apart.

Daughter named Minnie, too. ;)


So y'know what? It think that is our Emily Rivers.

Yes, that's true Jo.

I think you have learned two of the golden rules of research - leave no stone unturned and back it up with evidence.

I can't think what else to do about what happened to Emily.