Genealogy Chat

Hi Cynthia. Thanks you so much. I have spent all day so far with my Dad who is 83 trying to find the correct information. so far I have martha prior born 1843 wantage, and martha Rivers died 1900 Wantage aged 57. Yippee . I have now sent for both certificates. How can you find out what VOL 2c page 271 means . is this a reference to which cemetery. Also just in case you are bored Ha! how can I get Alfreds birth certificte if I can only find him by his first appearance on a census, I have checked everywhere but I stll only get his year of birth to be 1843. Please don't worry if you cannot assist me anymore, i realise ghow time consuming this is, and myself and my dad are delighted with some help. thanks again Jo

Hi. Vol 2c page 270 refers to the register entry. If you look at freebmd, you will see that all births, marriages and deaths have a number beside them. It's best to quote this when ordering certificates. I can't actually find an Alfred Rivers born 1841 in Berkshire as yet.


1861 Census
Name: Alfred Rivers
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: East Garston, Berkshire, England

Civil parish: Kingston Lisle
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Faringdon
Sub-registration district: Buckland
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 20
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Baron Empson 48
Francis Ann Empson 30
Frances Joseph Reeves Empson 3
Amy Mariam Marklyne 25
Sarah Cox 25
Hannah Taylor 22
Eliza Green 15
John Hasse 15
Richard Day 14
Alfred Rivers 20


1881
Name: Alfred Rivers
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Martha
Gender: Male
Where born: East Garston, Berkshire, England

Civil parish: Letcombe Regis
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England

Street Address: Langdon Cottages
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Ag Lab

Registration district: Wantage
Sub-registration district: Wantage
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alfred Rivers 40
Martha Rivers 38
Ann Rivers 15
Emily Rivers 14
Henry Rivers 12
Percy Rivers 10
George Rivers 7



1891
Name: Alfred Rivers
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Martha
Gender: Male
Where born: East Garston, Berkshire, England

Civil parish: Wantage
Ecclesiastical parish: Wantage
Town: Wantage
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Wantage
Sub-registration district: Wantage
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alfred Rivers 50
Martha Rivers 45
Emily Rivers 23
Pierce Rivers 20
George Rivers 16
Minnie Rivers 7
Joseph Rivers 1

Take a look at marriages on freebmd. Put in 'Rivers' , 'Alfred' and 'Martha'. Put the years between 1860-70 and you will see one come up but it is not Martha Prior!

Cx.

I'm concerned we're looking for the wrong Emily Rivers. Joanne says she died in 1912. The only death in Berkshire is the Emily age 54, making her born 1857/8 - unless the age is wrong.

The Emily age 54 in 1911 is a married woman (so is the one age 53), but your posting here implies your g grandmother died unmarried.

How do you know that the Joseph born 1890 is your grandfather?

Wow my head hurts !! You are amazing. funny but in 1891 martha has stated her surname as Prior but says wife on the census. I have now ordered birth and death certs for her so hopefully it will shed a little light on it. Maybe she didnt actually marry Alfred? I have been on bmd.org but for some reason I cannot view the info its sooooo small, I've tried everything I can think of to enlarge but to no avail.
As for Alfred I have rung and emailed the berks record office as I cannot requestcert for birth if I apparently do not have the relevant info, all i know is what I have gleaned from the 1871 census which states he is 30 its the earliest I can find him. And WHY were so many people named Rivers Ha! my Dad is about the only 1 in the whole of DEVON, which is where we are. Thanks again. I think I might just give my brain a reat today, although I so want to find this out for my Dad and hes not well so watch this space. I am glad though that you made me realsie that you have to be exact ish. thanks a lot hope you got your housework done. Jo

I'm still worried.

Your grandfather is Joseph E Rivers, died in Bideford in 1960 age 71. So I agree born abt 1888/89. This could be his birth:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Joseph Edward Rivers
Name: Joseph Edward Rivers
Year of Registration: 1889
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Wantage
County: Berkshire, Oxfordshire
Volume: 2c
Page: 311 (click to see others on page)

And could be the Joseph we have found on the 1891 census. In 1911 he is with aunt and uncle Henry and Annie Boulter in Faringdon, Berkshire. I cannot find him in 1901 though.

Can I ask, do you have his marriage certificate (to Mabel E Harris) to confirm there is no father on it (assuming Emily was unmarried and he did not lie)?

Hi Meg, I have pm'd Joanne to let her know you are still here but I wonder if she has shut down for the day. I have also advised her that it is FREEbmd and easy to use. Did you see the marriage on there - 1863 Faringdon, Alfred Rivers to Martha Weavens? What do you think? Cx.

Hi Cynthia

Thanks, I think Joanne has gone to do some housework - maybe we should do the same! We'll perhaps have to wait till she gets back, I think my post overlapped with her last one.

Yes I saw the Martha Weavens marriage, not sussed out who she is or where Prior came from.

Still concerned about this death in 1912 of Emily age 54.

Hope Joanne can answer my questions soon.

Marriages Dec 1887 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**** BOLTER Henry Wantage 2c 694
FERRIS Martha Wantage 2c 694
POUNDS Henry Wantage 2c 694
**** RIVERS Annie Wantage 2c 694

Henry born 1863, Annie born 1865.

EDIT Probably the Annie living with Emily in 1881. Sort of confirms that Joseph is her sister's son. So where did these 10 years go at her death?

Joanne, have we got the right death of Emily? Was she only 44 at death? Bigger mistakes have happened.

Thinking again. She was born in Berkshire. She died in Berkshire. Her family were from Berkshire. Why would she be buried in Didcot, Oxfordshire? Ignore that. As a Northerner my geographical knowledge south of Derby is a mess. Didcot is right next to Wallingford, Berkshire.

Going back on the thread Joanne, you say the death records show her dying June 1912. So presumably you have that death certificate? Who reported the death? Can you ask the GRO or wherever you got the certificate from to check out the age at death without any charge? Or did you already have this death certificate from your g grandmother's papers?

No such person as Martha Weavens.

EDIT - not true, see later.

Joanne, just to advise on that huge list that Flick gave early on, it is a list of all the towns and villages that come under the registration district of Wallingford, with details of what years of, say, Aston Tirrold came under Wallingford (1837-1974) and what disrict the town came under in other years (Aston Tirrold came under Oxford from 1974 onwards).

You can find all this on a website. I can't be bothered putting it in my favourites, but if you just google "registration districts" it comes up first.

Hi thanks so much for all your help. phew you have been busy. Yes my grandfather is Joseph E Rivers died in Bideford 1960. His mother is definitely Emily as I have his birth certificate and it states Father Unknown. She signed it with a X. I am sure my Dad will have the marriage certificate to so will try to get that tomorrow. There is a sister to Emily called Ann she was 5 on the 1871 census so that could be right that he went to live with them. My Dad seems to have got the wrong Emily as I posted to Cynthia think he got carried away love him he is 83 and trying hard on the net when I cannot. today has been spent checking and rechecking. We have now ordered a birth +death certificate for Martha Rivers nee Prior. Unfortunately we still cannot order one for Alfred as we only have him being born in 1841on the jan/feb/march birth records . it says Rivers Alfred St.saviours vol 1V PAGE 494 sup.registrars office 274. I think if I can get birth + death cert for him to then I may have a better start. This is all so new to me and I am just not sure what or where to look next. Can't thankyou enough for your help . Jo

Hi Joanne

found these on the woolstone parish records
1 marriage 5 baptisms no burials

marriage oct 17th 1863

Alfred Rivers father John
Martha Weavens father John

witness Albert Dawson, Joseph Hicks

Baptisms
children of Alfred and Martha Rivers


Emily May 26th 1867

also
Ann Feb 25th 1866
Henry July 11th 1869
Percy Nov 26th 1871
George June 25th 1874

cheers Annabel

Joanne, I don't think I would have rushed to order certs for Martha Rivers nee Prior. We have no idea who she is. She is Martha Weavens as far ad we can make out.

Who is Matha Rivers nee Prior? What birth certificate have you ordered for her? And a death certificate ordered too. When did this Martha Rivers die? Who is she? What exactly have you sent for?

I appreciate how exciting all this is, but you do have to try to get it right.

Please do let us have the reference numbers you have used.

Margaret

Very interesting Joanne.

Hi Annabel. Thanks so much this is all a muddle now but i think you have got it. could you tell me where you found the record above please. i think my problem is i am only joined on genes. which site allows you to look at this info. thanks so much Joanne

Hi I will ring the record office today and try and put a stop on martha prior I was sure she was the right one, but after looking at Annabel information its now made me doubt it. I must slow down and start again. thanks Jo

Hi Joanne

I have a cd of some of the Faringdon parish records, Woolstone is on it,


Baptisms 1849-1988
Marriages 1849- 1981
Burials 1849-1988


if I can help you any more just ask .

cheers Annabel

Hi Matha rivers d.o.b 1843 qtr 2 district wantage vol. v1 page 254.
death aged 57. year 1900 qtr 1 district wantage vol 2c page 271 . now im well and truly muddled. thanks Jo