Genealogy Chat

karen

I too agree with Simon, your mother only telling you half the story is not fair, did you ask her why she has only told you half of the situation?

Tell her it is niggling you and that you are determined to find out who your father is - with or without her help, just because you would like to know his name and for no other reason. The circumstances surrounding your mother and the court case are irrelevant, you love your mum and family and just simply need to know. Who knows, she may give in and provide what you are searching for.

The town Library may hold some films for newspaper reports around the time of the court case and as previously mentioned in this thread, the local archives may hold them.

Be open with your mum, tell her the extent at which you are prepared to go in finding your father's naem and that you are not going to give up. If it turns out that there are good reasons for her witholding certain information which are not pleasant and she doesn't want you to know, then tell her that if she just gave you his name now, you need look no further and will not get hurt.

If she was only 15 years at the time (a minor) her parents may have taken over the whole situation and didn't want your father to be around her. It is quite possible that the court case may have been because he wanted access to you, perhaps he has gone on the register with Social Services adoptions to be told should you be looking for him.

Good luck with it all. Only you know how far you want to push this.
Best Wishes
Dee

Thank you all once again for your replies and advice which I have taken, I think it has helped me having someone outside of the situation that I'm in. I think I will contact the court and adoption/social services for more information. I will post a thread if and when I find out any thing. Thanks for your support.
Bye for now
Karen

Karen I wish you all the best with your quest to find out about your birth father. However social services may not be able to give you any information, they will only know what your birth mother told them; she may not have revealed who the father is either.

I do hope you manage to get your answers, it sounds as if you have thought long and hard about this and are prepared as much as anyone can be......

hope you find peace of mind soon.

Tracey

Yes councelling would be required, its part of legislation. knowing mothers name doesnt really come into it.

Who knows what that file contains? All sorts of info about the situation, hopefully , although it may say nothing at all.

Karen, bear in mind that you may not have been told the complete truth. You may have been told complete fiction in fact - Which is why one has councelling - not only do the social workers tell you the facts, they help you understand and come to terms with them too.

Hi Karen,

I just wanted to wish you the best and hope that you manage to find some peace either way, should you find the answer or not.

Perhaps your Auntie's attitude was a bit of resentment to you coming in and being treated as a daughter, but you'd think she would have grown out of that by now! But I guess people can be funny things.

I suspect your mum does remember your father's name if they had been going out etc, perhaps she just feels that no good purpose would be served by raking over the past.

Godo luck any way, I hope you update us and let us know how you have gone.

Regards

Rachelle

im sure no matter what .. you are entitled to your adoption papers .Ie why and where and all the reasons .. you shouldnt have to go through any coucilling as you already know who your maternal mum is .. if you feel you really need to know your father and whys . get intough with the adoption agency .. you will get your answers . good luck to you xxx

Dear Karen,

I can see you have been weighing this up carefully, all credit to you. And listening to people's thoughts. At the end of the day though, we are not you, and not in your situation.

I can see Simon's point, you have been given half a story, and I wonder why that is.

So, you have a godmother, might she help you? Maybe not.

I'd try to get those adoption papers, but I read that you are not entitled to any information which is regarded as "protected information", so if your father was a minor, it is perhaps in that category.

Good luck.

Margaret

Is there any friends of your mum from school or wherever you could perhaps ask? If you don't want to rock the boat perhaps you could ask lightly how was she at school - did she have boyfriends etc?

Hi, Thanks again everyone for your replies, I feel I am strong enough to cope with this on my own, I do have a caring family to a certain extent apart from one of my sisters(really my oldest aunt) I have felt resentment from her for approx the last 15 yrs for whatever reason,like family photos with comments like "my grandfather/dad/mum etc" as if I'm not part of them. Every time I go to visit my mum (grandmother) she always seems to appear, sometimes I'd like to just go see my mum and spend time with her alone 1 to 1, I always come away from my mums upset because of the little innuendo's my sister makes. I can't really explain my sisters feelings towards me it would take too much time. My birth mother did marry when I was about 5 years old and went on to have another child when I was 7, and another when I was 9. I remember going to stay with her and her and new family at weekends never knowing she and her children were my mum and brother and sister (who know who I am and call me big sis). There are various pictures from my childhood of me with my birth mother and godmother, but sadly I was too young to remember the events. So I know she cares very much for me as the evidence is there. When she told them all she was pregnant it was a family decision to keep me in the family and not have me adopted out. From what she has told me, he wasn't just an aquaintance he was her boyfriend , had been seeing him for sometime and that they used to go on walks /outings, regularly seeing each other. I can understand her feelings and that is why I dont want to keep bringing the subject up. But it is niggling away at me and sometimes feel I dont belong. I just want to put things to rest....

Karen


It is of course entirely possible that your mother has indeed forgotten the name of your father, the man who "assaulted a minor".


The human mind has an incredible ability to heal itself after a traumatic situation ........ and that must indeed have been traumatic. And often part of that healing is to bury information deep in the mind, thus ensuring that it will not resurface and cause more trauma in the future.


It is entirely probable that your mother did not receive any kind of psychiatric help or counselling at the time ....... it just wasn't done then.


Whether or not she was raped or whether it had been consensual sex, she still became pregnant. Parents found out .... possibly hit the roof initially.

Then the police were obviously called in as the man was charged and found guilty ........ so your 15 year old mother had to be interviewed by the police ................. who would possibly have been less than considerate


she would probaby have had to give evidence in court ..................... and could well have been subjected to horrendous cross-questioning by the guy's solicitor in an attempt to prove that he had not committed an assault.


Unless of course, he was gentleman enough to plead guilty and save her from that experience.




This all amounts to the fact that it was an extremely traumatic time ................. and I am not at all surprised that she might want to forget all about it.




The other aspect may be that she never did know his name, or his true name.


Imagine a scenario where she met a guy at a coffee bar, or a club, he asked if he could walk her home or to the bus stop ...... and then assaulted her ...................... she may well have known only his christian name, or he may have given her a false name.






There must be a local paper in Knutsford? Have you tried going to the Knutsford library or Local Studies and Archives Centre to see if they have those papers archived?

It might be possible to search through about 6 months worth of those papers over the relevant period. Her name almost certainly will not be published ................ but you might see the report of a case where a 21 year old man was charged with assault of a minor.



But I really think that your mother has been through enough trauma at the time, that it would be very cruel to make her remember it all over again.


Having said all that, I think I can appreciate that you want to know .................. but is it the wisest thing???????






sylvia


geez ....... I've just re-read your heading! I was teaching in Northwich at that time!

HI karen

My heart really goes out to you love.Your mum should have not let half the cat out of the bag. If she thought that it should be an absolute secret she should never have told you any thing at all, but it seems to me that part of her wanted to let you know about him, but another part of her does not want to reveal him.

I think your mum has started the ball rolling and now there is no return. If I were in your shoes I would not rest until I knew the truth and I also believe you have every right to know your biological dad no matter what.
Only you knows your inner self, if you are strong go for it, but if you are weak be very prepared for upset .

Best of luck to you , I know what I am talking about from experience of the above situation !

Simon

Let us just pretend we are Karen's mother. We have been brought up together as sisters. Karen's mum (and Grandparents) know they are not sisters. This is eating Karen's mum away. From the age of 15 it is eating her away, knowing that her little sister is not her sister at all but her own child. I cannot begin to imagine how Karen's mum coped with that.

When Karen was 14, and her mum only 29, she told the truth. The truth that she had kept secret for 14 years. Poor woman, having to hide that all that time, and living in the prescence of her daughter. Eventually she could not hide the truth. She perhaps shouldn't have told you, but 29 isn't particularly old, and we are full of emotions at 29, most women aren't made of steel.

Did your mother eventually marry?

It might make a slight differnence. Did she have further children?

Perhaps she genuinely can't remember his name. I had boyfriends way back and can't remember their names, though I didn't get pregnant by them, but it's not impossible.

I don't know how to advise. I am tempted to say leave it. If your gran has Vascular Dementia everybody will be busy dealing with the difficulties that entails (and I am familiar with Dementia and the problems can be really hard to deal with).

I don't know. I suspect that your blood father is someone the family don't want you to know about. Ask yourself what sort of family they are. Are they generally and loving, caring family? Or are they a bickering, scathing family? If they are generally loving and caring, I'd accept that there are good reasons for not not being told who you your father is. Hard to do, but I think you should do it.

Just my thoughts. I think you might regret upsetting your family if you find out the truth, and create another problem for them to deal with at this difficult time in their lives.

You might just have to let it go for now. Very hard for you but better for your family.

Much love

Margaret

Karen,

I'm not sure as I don't know a lot about adoption but I think that if you are over 18 then you can contact social services in the area where you were adopted and you should be able to get access to your adoption files. I think you may have to see a counsellor first before you get access.

Kath. x

Rosie Posie - Im not sure how to go about it? And whether he was on it or not as they were'nt married and he had committed a crime in the eyes of the law back then? I do have my adoption certificate but it only tells me who adopted me, even my birth mother isn't on it.

Thanks Margaret, I have often wondered whether it could possibly be a relation or family friend, but why tell me at all if everyone wanted to keep it secret. I was 14 years old when my maternal mother told me I was her daughter not her sister, so I'm sure you can imagine the thoughts and wondering I've had all these years. She told me about 2 years ago about the court case, which court it was in and even the charge brought against my biological father, so giving me this amount of information sparked even more curiosity but to still say she cant remember his name. I do understand everyones replies to my quandry, I just wanted to know his name and dont want to keep asking the family because of causing any upset. My adoptive mother(maternal grandmother) is now 85 and has vascular dementia and probably would remember if I asked her but I dont want to ask her because she is old and frail and has brought me up since I was born as her own daughter. thanks Karen

Karen can you not get your adoption file ?? that should have all the info on it .

Hello again Karen. It's probably a difficult and upsetting situation for you. Your mother might have very good reasons for not giving you his name. I am pretty sure she hasn't "forgotten", but perhaps she had a relationship with two men at around the same time, and simply isn't sure, and is embarassed to admit it. I don't want to upset you further, but the father could be someone you know and dislike and she is ashamed of it. He could have been a relative - her sister's husband, a cousin, even her own brother (sounds awful, I know, but it did happen).

I really do feel for you, even though I haven't experienced such a situation myself. But perhaps this is something you'll have to wait a long time for before getting an answer.

I have a friend who gave birth to a child around the same time as you are saying, she was about 17. She always brought the child up as her own, but to this very day has never told anyone who the father was. She is a lovely, caring, considerate woman (now in her 60s), and I am absolutely sure she has some very good reason for keeping it secret, that we may never know.

I hope this gives you some comfort.

Margaret

thanks everyone that replied - I am still in touch with my birth mother, but every time I ask her my fathers name she clams up and says she cant remember his name, but with all that went on surrounding my birth its not likely something you WOULD forget. I have discreetly asked certain members of my family so as not to upset anyone directly, but as yet no-one has any info. At the end of the day I am 44 years old, and he might even have passed on. All I want is a name, that should I wish to do anything about it, it would be my choice, whereas at the moment I don't have a choice. I feel that I am entitled to at least have a name......

Have you approached the Social Services Dept. where you were born to have access to your Adoption records? They will probably name your father,
Good luck with your search.

Do tread carefully.

If you can do it discretely, you could try looking in the contemporary local papers for reports on the Court Case. The local library will probably hold them, but may charge to search on your behalf.

As your birth mother was under age, it could be that there were reporting restrictions and either she was not named (likely) or the whole case kept from publication.

Please, please, consider all possible circumstances before you proceed. It could be that the refusal to talk about the circumstances is to protect you. Once the Genie is out of the bottle and all that.