Genealogy Chat

Hi everyone again, the other day was given the address of Lily's birth at 126 Wenlock Street at 2 weeks before the census, seems a coincidence that there is a child there at 2 weeks plus Ada, no George or Blanche but I was told that the mother could possibly have been Emily Webb Holmes and there is Emma there. Ada said her father was Fred Webb deceased and there is a Fred in this family. I could not find any mention of any Naginton in London. Ada was born September.

The only Frederick Naginton I can find at the moment was not born London was married quite young and was a soldier, this is a very unusual name thank goodness.

Still trying to find out if Ada and Lily in Shoreditch Workhouse is them they were christened in a local church on mass and there is a fiche with it on. Have to see if my local archives has the facility for requesting it. Have asked on the main message board if anyone lives nearby and would look at it for me but have had no replies. Found the immigration of child labour to Canada interesting, what ages were they sent there? Re Blanche born mid 1893 I too am becoming an expert on London feel like pinning the map up and putting pins in it of the places the family could have been. The more I look apart from Ada saying she was born in Putney _ Croydon region the others are all north of the river, Blanche settling in Fulham two addresses there.

Thanks again all of you going to read all your replies again.

Hi, just seen Janey's follow-up queries

The Romford, Essex institutional 1911 entries found are as follows:

Ada Webb age 13, at school, b London Shoreditch
Lilian Webb age 11, at school, b London Shoreditch

(at workhouse cottage homes in association with the Shoreditch workhouse).

Although the Shoreditch place of birth might be expected, the place of birth for many of the inmates is "NK"

It is very difficult with the evidence available so far to work out whether these might be the family Sandra is seeking; one reason for lighting on these two Webb children was Sandra's finding (see 2 April, page 4 of this thread) that there was a Blanche Webb b approx 1894 who is stated at the 1911 census to have been born in Islington; and Islington and Shoreditch are within a mile of one another.

here's the Ironside/Webb marriage for reference -


England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005
Name: Ada Webb
Spouse Surname: Ironside
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1920
Registration district: Sheffield
Registration county (inferred): Yorkshire - West Riding
Volume Number: 9c
Page Number: 1262
Find Spouse: Joe A Ironside (Joe on original, not Jee)

Madmeg thinks I should help out here. ;) I see "Canada" so maybe I can lend a hand. Just not right now - it's nearly 7:00 Friday evening, I have just completed the week's work ... except for the big job due at 9:00 on Monday ... and I am braindead and neither use nor ornament at the moment. It's in "my threads" now though, and I'll come back!

edit - MM gave me an excellent summary by email, haven't read the thread yet. Just a couple of questions.

"In 1911, possible sighting of Ada (13) and Lily (11) in Hornchurch Cottage Homes, Romford, Essex."
Does it state a place of birth?

"Ada is born 26 Sep 1899 according to her death in Sheffield 1986 age 87, after marrying (age 23 stated on marriage) Jee A Ironside in Dec 1920 in Sheffield. One or two children identified."
Where is this Webb-Ironside marriage? I can't find it at FreeBMD for love nor money. No great significance that I can't find it, just annoying.

"Brother George reputedly emigrated to Canada."
Could this have been as a Home Child? There are a few George Webb-s in the Cdn Child Migrant database who could fit, fortunately or unfortunately. (A couple are in their teens, born mid-1890s-ish, would have been candidates for the cheap farm labour fate.)

You do have these two births, don't you?

Roy Ironside Jul Aug Sep 1935 Sheffield Yorkshire

Leslie Ironside Jul Aug Sep 1921 Ecclesall B. Yorkshire

Both mmn Webb.

no trace in 1911 yet ....


or anywhere else for that matter.

not seeing a birth or a marriage for the Nagintons -


forget that, here's Ada -


Births Mar 1899 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Nagington Ada Shoreditch 1c 40



Thought it might have been a possibility !

here you go -


281 CHALK, Annie Daughter F 13 1888
Southampton VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

282 NAGINTON, Frederick Head Married M 46 1855 General Labourer
London VIEW
282 NAGINTON, Emma Wife Married F 40 1861
Hoxton
London VIEW
282 NAGINTON, Willie Son M 14 1887 Errand Boy
Shoreditch
London VIEW
282 NAGINTON, Ada Daughter F 2 1899
Shoreditch
London VIEW
282 NAGINTON, Lizzie Daughter F 0 1901
Shoreditch
London VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

283 WATER, Margaret Head Widow F 64 1837 Card Mounter
Shoreditch
London VIEW
283 WATER, Mary Daughter Single F 30 1871 Card Mounter
Shoreditch
London VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

284 HOWE, William Head Married M 42 1859 Litho Writer
Trowbridge
Somersetshire VIEW
284 HOWE, Eliza Wife Married F 41 1860
King Cross
London VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

285 WHITLOCK, Thomas Head Married M 28 1873 Printers Labourer
Whitechapel
London VIEW
285 WHITLOCK, Fanny L Wife Married F 27 1874 Gentlemens Brace Machinist
Bristol VIEW
285 WHITLOCK, Albert J H Son M 2 1899
St Lukes
London VIEW
285 WHITLOCK, Richard W T Son M 0 1901
St Lukes
London VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

286 MARCH, Cornelius Head Widower M 59 1842 Machine Minder (Engineers)
Brentwood
Essex VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG13 Piece:
270 Folio:
78 Page:
30

Registration District:
Shoreditch Sub District:
Hoxton New Town Enumeration District:
3 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Hoxton St John the Baptist

Civil Parish:
Shoreditch Municipal Borough:
Address:
126, Wenlock Street, Shoreditch County:
London



I would ignore Annie Chalk at the top of the page. She appears to be living next door.

Could anyone find out for me who was living at 126 Wenlock Street, Hoxton, borough of Hackney at the 1901 census please.

Hackney is next to Shoreditch, which is the borough that probably took in Ada and Lily into the Workhouse.

I have to see if my archives does apply to other archives for fiches, there are forms to fill in and money to change hands if this is the case. That would be for the chistening only at the moment, would love to know if it is them why they were taken into care.

MadMeg, yes lol ... Janey hasn't found 'mine' yet...so this can be a 'warm -up ' exercise for her ;)

Anybody think it's time to get JC on this?

Am feeling so down tonight, after yesterday's good news just received a refund for Ada's certificate, so back to square one.

Been looking at others people's problems on this web site and can see that you help so many people, good on you.

Had a reply from the last people I wrote to. In the workhouses when the children are christened all that appears is their names and D.O.B. unfortunately but they gave me another web site that may be able to tell me why these girls were taken into care, gave them also brief history to check they are the correct girls, a month's wait for their reply I am told.

It is 5 weeks since I applied for Ada's birth cert. usually withint 4 weeks you get part of your money back if they cannot find it. Phoned them and they said something may be on its way to me 3 days before it is posted out to me and I know their 2nd class post takes 5 days SO maybe with 10 days I may have something that we can get out teeth into. With our luck it will be someone who is a single orphaned person not on any census. Never researched anything as complicated except my grandmother that we still do not have a birth certificate for. Hopefully talk to you all soon.

Hi Choccy, thanks for that site, written to someone on that web site and explained briefly the family situation, am becoming an expert at that if not at anything else. I have asked if I bought the part with the births on would it tell me anything I do not know, their D.O.B. would be useful but if the mother did not register them it is still hard work. I needed this mother's name desperately. Can I say without all your encouragement I could have been throwing money at this family for ever and not getting as far as we all have. Mind you there again if we ever find this family I will miss talking to you all I never realised what clever detectives there were out there.

Hi Sandra,

Will keep my fingers crossed for you.

The blueyonder site is brilliant - it was Choccy's finding, so the thanks go to her and the site author.

All the best

Hi Ivy, found a birth for Lily in Shoreditch Mar. period 1900 which is the right time of year for our Lily's birth. Been to the Library today and could not find this child on the 1901 census. Could not find Ada born Shoreditch but if they are sisters should have been living there. Will write to this site to find out any information they can give me and how much it is to buy. Brilliant site finding for me thanks.

Sandra

Hi Ivy Keep re reading these thoughts and work that you have all done, so much to take in. If you take in death certs. these are the ages the girls should have been 13 and 11. Have a friend who has the 1911 census on line, she will print this out for me. Will also look at Shoreditch workhouse and London met archives. Wish a member of the London family was into family history and could go to archives to find out or eliminate for me. Will talk again soon, Sandra

Hi these look interesting are they all Webbs? Not certain of which order George came except that he was older than Ada, he eventually went to Canada.

Ada born 26th September could be registerd Dec.
Lily born March qtr.
Blanch should have been mid qtr. 1893 according to Fulham archives.

Purley is the place Ada said she was born but could have been registered somewhere else.

back from days away, amazed at what you have found out. Yes I have met Ada and Lily and I have met the daughter of Blanche. Ada's birth date was 26th September any year from 1896/9 depending on marriage of death certificate. The thought I have had is that she said she was 23 on her marriage, maybe she was under 21 and needed her parents permission and she did not have it. Am beginning to now believe that their births were not registered for whatever reason. We know from Blanche's wedding cert. that there was no father. Am still looking at institutions 1901 in London area. Still awaiting the three year trawl of birth certs for Ada but not hopeful, dread it not coming, do no know what to do then. If you have not found the 4 children then I do not thin I can, you re all so good.