Genealogy Chat

Madmeg thinks I should help out here. ;) I see "Canada" so maybe I can lend a hand. Just not right now - it's nearly 7:00 Friday evening, I have just completed the week's work ... except for the big job due at 9:00 on Monday ... and I am braindead and neither use nor ornament at the moment. It's in "my threads" now though, and I'll come back!

edit - MM gave me an excellent summary by email, haven't read the thread yet. Just a couple of questions.

"In 1911, possible sighting of Ada (13) and Lily (11) in Hornchurch Cottage Homes, Romford, Essex."
Does it state a place of birth?

"Ada is born 26 Sep 1899 according to her death in Sheffield 1986 age 87, after marrying (age 23 stated on marriage) Jee A Ironside in Dec 1920 in Sheffield. One or two children identified."
Where is this Webb-Ironside marriage? I can't find it at FreeBMD for love nor money. No great significance that I can't find it, just annoying.

"Brother George reputedly emigrated to Canada."
Could this have been as a Home Child? There are a few George Webb-s in the Cdn Child Migrant database who could fit, fortunately or unfortunately. (A couple are in their teens, born mid-1890s-ish, would have been candidates for the cheap farm labour fate.)

here's the Ironside/Webb marriage for reference -


England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005
Name: Ada Webb
Spouse Surname: Ironside
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1920
Registration district: Sheffield
Registration county (inferred): Yorkshire - West Riding
Volume Number: 9c
Page Number: 1262
Find Spouse: Joe A Ironside (Joe on original, not Jee)

Hi, just seen Janey's follow-up queries

The Romford, Essex institutional 1911 entries found are as follows:

Ada Webb age 13, at school, b London Shoreditch
Lilian Webb age 11, at school, b London Shoreditch

(at workhouse cottage homes in association with the Shoreditch workhouse).

Although the Shoreditch place of birth might be expected, the place of birth for many of the inmates is "NK"

It is very difficult with the evidence available so far to work out whether these might be the family Sandra is seeking; one reason for lighting on these two Webb children was Sandra's finding (see 2 April, page 4 of this thread) that there was a Blanche Webb b approx 1894 who is stated at the 1911 census to have been born in Islington; and Islington and Shoreditch are within a mile of one another.

Hi everyone again, the other day was given the address of Lily's birth at 126 Wenlock Street at 2 weeks before the census, seems a coincidence that there is a child there at 2 weeks plus Ada, no George or Blanche but I was told that the mother could possibly have been Emily Webb Holmes and there is Emma there. Ada said her father was Fred Webb deceased and there is a Fred in this family. I could not find any mention of any Naginton in London. Ada was born September.

The only Frederick Naginton I can find at the moment was not born London was married quite young and was a soldier, this is a very unusual name thank goodness.

Still trying to find out if Ada and Lily in Shoreditch Workhouse is them they were christened in a local church on mass and there is a fiche with it on. Have to see if my local archives has the facility for requesting it. Have asked on the main message board if anyone lives nearby and would look at it for me but have had no replies. Found the immigration of child labour to Canada interesting, what ages were they sent there? Re Blanche born mid 1893 I too am becoming an expert on London feel like pinning the map up and putting pins in it of the places the family could have been. The more I look apart from Ada saying she was born in Putney _ Croydon region the others are all north of the river, Blanche settling in Fulham two addresses there.

Thanks again all of you going to read all your replies again.

Hi Sandra,

I've tried looking at the distribution of the surname Nag*t*n in the 1890s. Most are from the Shropshire area, but restricting it to the London area, there are just these birth and death registrations between 1886 and 1906:

John Naggington birth Jun q 1887 Pancras
John Naggington death Jun q 1887 Pancras

Harry Naggington birth Jun q 1887 Pancras
Harry Naggington death Mar q 1888 Pancras

Annie Nagington birth Mar q 1897 Shoreditch

Female Nagington death Mar q 1897 Shoreditch

Ada Nagington birth Mar q 1899 Shoreditch

Lily Nagerton birth Jun q 1901 Shoreditch

The family might well fit if Blanche and George were Emily's children by a previous relationship of Emily's.

There are also two adult deaths in London:

Frederick Nagginton born abt 1856 died Mar q 1903 Shoreditch
Annie Nagington born abt 1855 died 1897 Shoreditch

- and, if it is the right family, this individual to account for:

Frederick Nagington birth Sep q 1903 Shoreditch

Looking at what you have found has given me another headache, in fact several would love to throw lots of money at this, I wish in a way in was my family and then I would not feel guilty about this. Ada's birth is wrong but then again how did she know when she was born, Lily if the birth was registered late is correct, oh dear. The death of Fred fits in with children being taken into care. Going to have my breakfast and taken this in. Thanks Sandra.

Well, you have taken on a very tough nut to crack!

You mentioned that Ada and Lily/Lizzie's mother, on the census with Fred in 1901, may be Emma/Emily Webb Holmes - have you been passed any info on her likely periods of use of these surnames?

not at this moment in time, I only received this info last week it was written on a piece of paper by Blanche. Blanche married twice and it was written in her second marriage name this was in 1927. I have looked at webb/holmes marriages and at this time only found 2 one in 1882 Emma Holmes and William Webb and the second in Fulham in 1890 with the name Elizabeth Holmes George Webb. Not looked at any census for any of these.

Phoned Sheffield archives yesterday and the person I spoke to had never heard of applying to other archives for fiches to be sent to them. Think today I will apply for Ada Nagington's birth. It may either rule it in or out.

This may or may not help, as I'm not sure where you are based. But over the next few weeks I'm going to visiting Sheffield regularly. I've been to the archives before, had a ticket for access, and no promises cos I'm useless at using original records, but if you let me know what you want info on, I might be able to give it a go for you.

Hi Madmeg thanks but I live in Sheffield. Was a bit surprised that they did not know about being able to borrow fiches from other archives, they are normally brilliant there. Have not pursued this yet re births of Ada and Lily with the christening in care. I have applied again for Ada's birth under the name of Nagington, it is the wrong period but the right year. I need to see who the mother was before I do any more serious research. Have been looking into Nagington and its variations. Brilliant name for this. Ivy found me a death for Annie Naggington. I have found a marriage between Fred and Mary Anne in Stafford. If this is her then the relationship and births of maybe George but definately Ada and Lily occur after her death. Need to find out why they were taken into care next job. Can see Fred died Feeling a little more optomistic hope it is not a false trail again.. The 14 year old Willie could be from the first marriage.

Thanks again for the offer Madmeg if you need anything looking up in Sheffield any time will try to find it for you. I belong to Sheffield Family History Society. Have you looked on their web site. Have found out useful info there, the City Road Cemetary has turned up many things the family did not know.

regards Sandra

Hi all, have today received a birth certificate for Ada Nagington. The birth date is 29th December 1898 at the address on the 1901 census. Father Frederick Nagington, mother Emily Nagington late Smith formerly Webb. The birth was not registered until 4th February 1899. Emily registered the birth with her mark so possibly she could not read/write. I am reasonably happy with this now. I have also received a letter from the guardians of Shoreditch workhouse. When children were taken into care sometimes nothing was written about their entry on some and on others ie. mother in workhouse, orphaned or similar. The birth dates were not entered only how old they were. I can find no marriage of the Nagington's yet and the Smith one there are loads. I If she never married legally the children were obviously given her name, whether right or wrong. Do you all agree? I feel like a load has been taken off me. If I can find the mother's family is another matter. love from Sandra thanks for your help and encouragement

I feel I must thank all of you who kept me going in this search for what has seemed an impossible task at times. I would have plodded on and eventually maybe found the answer BUT heavens only knows when that would have been. You have all taught me so much. Who would have thought the name was so different. I have now found a relative of the Nagingtons who lives in London and has offered to go to the archives there for me without me asking, what a gem. She must be related to you lot. Still do not know where Blanche and George are 1901 or even what name they are going under, this is work in progess. Could make a long list of things to do.
Love to you all and thanks again without your help life would have been bleak searching wise this last few months
Sandra

Pleased to hear you have hopefully sorted the family out.

I've been reading the updates although not contributing.

Keep us informed if you make any more progress.

Christine

I will. Looked at the death of Annie Nagington born 1855, looks like she lost twin boys and then had another child Annie who also died, hers and her mothers death seem to be at the same time.

After that it looks like Emily came on the scene and had 2 of the children that I have been looking for. So the Willie aged 14 must have been from a previous marriage which I have yet to find. The one I thought I had apparently married someone else about 1883sh.

Fred the father died early 1903 just 6 months prior to a birth of son named after him. No idea what happened to him yet.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New year to all of you who took the time and expertise to help me, was most appreciated.

xxxxx

Thank you Sandra. Have we given up? I was hoping you were posting to tell us of some revelation.

Anyway, have a good Christmas yourself.

Hi just read your thread, what was the mother's christian name please?