Genealogy Chat

On a marriage cert from 1838, of full age would be over how old?

thanks

jan

Did they lie? I guess so

cenuses I am looking at make groom consistently born in 1820 yet the marriage says of full age and he would only have been 18?

Hi Janet

Full age refers to 21. One of my Marriage Certificates shows a minor aged 18.

Liz

Cenus records can show the right age but they are often rounded up or down by five years. Whether they were rounded up or down depends on the person taking the records on the day!

But your right - sometimes people lied about their age - there was someone on "Heir Hunters" that pretended she was thirty years younger - if only I could look that youthful when I'm eighty!!!!

Liz

Of full age on a marriage cert can also mean "with the parents' consent" so they could be younger than 21. I have one who says he is of full age but he was barely 20 at the time.

Jill

OK thanks, pretty sure it's the correct bloke just that bit didn't quite agree

So I disagree with two posts here!!

Elizabeth - Ages 15+ on the 1841 can be rounded DOWN to a mult of 5, but NEVER UP.

Mrs G - of full age just means over 21. It's not really possible for parents to consent to his being 3 years older or whatever - he was born when he was born.

Parental consent for marriages under 21 was often not forthcoming, perhaps because the parents were illiterate.

Therefore, It was not uncommon for those just under 21 to lie about their age, especially if they looked older than they were and the vicar didn't know the families.

In some parts of the country, it was also deemed 'improper' for a groom to marry an older woman, albeit by just a few years. This could sometimes be another reason why porkies were told about their ages. Keeping track of what was said previously must have been a bit of a nightmare when it came to completing later censuses. We have an example of this with my wife's great grandparents, whose ages vary up or down by six years.

The younger you can find someone on the census the more likely their age is to be accurate. Also when checking censuses, always look at the image, don't rely on the age as transcribed as it is surprising how often this is incorrect.

My great grandfather remarried in 1918 and gave his age as 65.
He was actually 70 !

This Isle of Man website page includes this section, which seems to apply to the UK as well ...

Legal Age for Marriage

Roman law gave the minimum age for marriage as that of puberty which was 14 for boys and 12 for girls; these remained the legal age for marriage until the late 19th Century in Britain though that for girls seemed to be assumed also to be 14. However most did not marry until 18 or older though the Manx have always had a reputation for early marriages. For parties under 21 permission of parents and/or guardians was required. Generally if you find a marriage involving a young minor look for a corresponding marriage settlement as these were generally family arrangements to safeguard the transmission of land. Sometime you will find permission of both one parent and a guardian - this apparently 'impossible' combination, which arises from the considerable differences in Manx law from English law, indicates the death of one natural parent and a remarriage (generally of the woman), the guardian would be appointed to safeguard the interest of the deceased partner's family in the transfer of property to the children.

Legal Age for Marriage "Before Hardwickes Marriage act of 1753 there was no legal age of marriage, except during the 1650's when it was sixteen for `men' and fourteen for women'. In 1753 it was fixed at fourteen for men and twelve for women, and remained at those ages until the Age of Marriage Act in 1929, which raised the age to sixteen for both."
from the Family Tree Detective by Colin D. Rogers . Manchester University Press

Marriage below 21 ( eighteen since 1969), should have to have consent of parents or guardian recorded.

The wife in this case was about 8 years older so that could be distinct possibility

mgnv - I'm disagreeing ...

Yes, an 18 year old would be 18, but it was an accepted practice to use "of full age" to mean "with parental consent".

Jill

I haven't heard of Full Age meaning with parental consent either.

Barbara Dixon's tutorial site doesn't mention this either.

"Unfortunately some marriage registers simply state "of full age" which tells you nothing except that the bride and/or groom were aged 21 or over and could have been anything from 21 to 80+ - not terribly helpful. It was always possible for a bride under 21 to add a few years if she thought she could get away with it so that she did not require the consent of her family."

Bear in mind though that anything is possible in this game.

Mrs G - well, I've never heard of that, but I'll keep an open mind on it - I did know widows of any age were of full age - I must leave you now to disagree with someone else.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Colin - not all of what you say applies to the whole of the UK. In Scotland, there wasn't then, and isn't now, a requirement for parental consent for marriage at any age.
Also in Scotland, Lord Hardwicke's act had no effect, but I think the age limits were 14/12, so presumably these existed before 1753. Actually Lord Hardwicke's act makes no mention of a minimum age - probably just as well as it didn't apply to everyone in England anyway (the royal family, quakers and jews were excluded from any provisions).

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~framland/acts/1753.htm

I also had the impression that Lord Hardwicke's act didn't apply to the Isle of Man, and they passed a similar act in 1755 to cover the Isle of Man - maybe that one had age limits for the IoM.

I have a female rellie, who married in 1739, in England. How can I guestimate her age, as no birth records have not been found to date.
Many Thanks
Julia in Derbyshire

Nudged, please someone help me with this question above. I have not got a clue how to work this one out.
Many Thanks
Julia in Derbyshire

Good Morning Jonesey, Thank you so much for the explanation. I too use the 5yr. rule of thumb, and have found it very satisfactory, and fruitful.
I am not asking you to do all this for me,as I usually have good success with my searches, but perhaps yif I gave you alittle bit more information, you could steer me in the right direction.
My 6 x Gt. Grandfather died in 1752, and I have a copy of the will. He had married in 1750, and had a child in 1751. What came as a shock was that in the will, me mentioned a daughter, and her eldest son, for an apprentiship. What daughter???. he had only just been married. I looked the daughter up on the IGI, and could find that she married in 1739, in St John's Baptist, Peterborough. The son mentioned in the will I could not find, but a sebsequent son was found for 1745, and a daughter in 1750. I also found that her husband also died in 1753. And that is where the trail has gone cold, as I cannot find anything for the daughter and her children after this date.
It is obvious that the 6 x Gt. Grandfather had been married twice, if not three times. But alas, I cannot find anything for this, nor his birth. I have documents of a land transfer from his wife at that time, who had inherited the property from her deceased father, dated 1743/4.
To me, and perhaps I am being too simplistic in this, it is as if he, and his daughter from a previous marriage, just appeared out of thin are, with no records of their being.
I would really appreciate your opinion on this. As I have said, I do not expect you to do the leg work on this for me, but would value your advice.
Many Thanks
Julia in Derbyshire

Further to my earlier comment re the Isle of Man website - this does not really answer the question - What does 'of Full Age' mean.

As far as I am concerned 'Of full age' means 21 and over; marriage at a younger age must have parent/guardian approval. (Possibly the courts could also 'give consent', but I am not aware of any such cases).

So, 'of full age' is 21+.

Seems I'm doing nowt but disagreeing - this time Colin again:
"As far as I am concerned 'Of full age' means 21 and over; marriage at a younger age must have parent/guardian approval."

Mostly OK, except that widows/widowers under the age of 21 do not need parental approval to remarry.

OK mgnv - I had not considered this variation.

I'll not disagree, but it must have been rare.

This could result in anyone under the age of 21 telling the proverbial porky about their marriage status so they can get married without their parents consent and without being 21.

Colin