Genealogy Chat

Sounds good to me Choccy, her birth was registered September quarter 1937.

Don't know of any witnesses or when she died

Choccy, It looks like you may have moved the brick wall I came up a against, I feel sure that this is Patricia.

So I now wonder if we can find any siblings for Peter Heasman who might know his whereabouts.

If the birth date given is right, I can only find one Peter G Heasman registered June quarter 1933, Portsmouth, mmn White. Others around the time are Peter R, Sept quarter 1932, Cuckfield, mmn Barner, and plain Peter, June 1932, Maidstone, mmn Ralph.

How about this?

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
about Peter Heasman
Name: Peter Heasman
Birth Date: abt 1933
Age: 3
Port of Departure: Bombay, India
Arrival Date: 31 Aug 1936
Port of Arrival: Plymouth, England
Ports of Voyage: Bombay, Karachi, Suez, Port Said and Marseilles
Ship Name: City of Marseilles
Search Ship Database: View the 'City of Marseilles' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: City Line
Official Number: 135436

Destination "Montclair", Silverdale Road, Burgess Hill, Sussex.

Father Leslie G is 34, a Chartered Accountant. Mother is Doris M (oh dear!) 37, sister Pamela A, 5.

Alan,

The witnesses are listed on the marriage cert.

Rose

Another travelling family:

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
about Master P P R Heasman
Name: Master P P R Heasman
Birth Date: abt 1933
Age: 12
Port of Departure: Karachi, Pakistan
Arrival Date: 13 Nov 1945
Port of Arrival: Hull, England
Ports of Voyage: Karachi and Port Said
Ship Name: Settler
Search Ship Database: Search the 'Settler' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: Harrison Line
Official Number: 166273

Plus parents and sister. Destination 19 Farring Road, Worthing. All born England.

Rose, I don't think he has the marriage certificate yet.

Births Mar 1902 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heasman Leslie George W. Ham 4a 123

I can't find any birth for Pamela, nor any marriage for Les and Doris, though they could have married abroad.

census search results 1911 address search redefine current search
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HEASMAN, George Head Married M 34 1877 Merchant's Clerk Sussex Brighton VIEW
HEASMAN, Ella Maude Wife Married
10 years F 31 1880 Sussex Brighton VIEW
HEASMAN, Leslie George Son M 9 1902 Essex Upton Manor VIEW
HEASMAN, Philip Braham Son M 4 1907 Essex Upton Manor VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
3359 Reference:
RG14PN3359 RG78PN126 RD39 SD3 ED37 SN264

Registration District:
Croydon Sub District:
West Croydon EnumerationDistrict:
37 Parish:


Address:
77 Colliers Waters Lane Thorndon Heath Surrey County:
Surrey

I have looked but couldn't find Patricia and Peter in marriage register from 1955 to 1958.
Still wating for Doris and John's marriage cert.

No, Alan, neither can I, they probably married in India.

Philip Braham Heasman appears to marry Phillip EDIT PHYLLIS E De La G Cameron in Dec 1936 at Worthing. Possible reason for the Heasman's to come over from India?

I can't find any children of this marriage - which of course, was my aim.

He possibly marries again in Dec 1951 at Hove, to Gwyneth M Morley, though I cannot find a death for Phyllis despite trawling through the quarters.

Oh, here's 1911:

census search results 1911 address search redefine current search
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CAMERON, Florence De La Garde Head Married F 57 1854 Boarding House Keeper India Luchown VIEW
CAMERON, Ellen Gertrude Daughter In Law Married F 37 1874 Boarding House Keeper London Canonbury VIEW
CAMERON, Tan Leslie De La Garde Grandson M 6 1905 Kent Biddenden VIEW
CAMERON, Stanley Horace Trevor Grandson M 4 1907 Kent Biddenden VIEW
CAMERON, Phyllis Eileen De La Garde Granddaughter M 2 1909 Sussex Hastings VIEW
TAUNTON, Frances Osbaldiston Metford Servant Single F 29 1882 Cook Boarding House London Peckham Rye VIEW
DENEVEAUX, Christiane Governess Single F 16 1895 Governess France Compiegne VIEW
DUHAMEL, Charles Xavier Ausgustus Servant Single M 24 1887 Waiter Boarding House France Resident VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
4739 Reference:
RG14PN4739 RG78PN203 RD69 SD2 ED9 SN43

Registration District:
Hastings Sub District:
All Saints EnumerationDistrict:
9 Parish:
Hastings

Address:
14 Marine Parade Hastings County:
Sussex

I am trying to find SOMEONE from this family who might still be alive and know the whereabouts of the Heasmans.

Alan, did your wife's father have any other siblings? I can't see any.

Oh, he's another one with itchy feet!

Name: Philip Braham Heasman
Birth Date: abt 1907
Age: 40
Port of Departure: Kure, Japan
Arrival Date: 26 Jul 1947
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ports of Voyage: Kure, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Singapore, Bombay and Port Said
Ship Name: Empress of Scotland
Search Ship Database: View the 'Empress of Scotland' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: Canadian Pacific
Official Number: 161430

Travelling alone, age 40, abode 173 Hangleton Road, Hove 4. Occupation UNRRA Official.

Sorry, running out of ideas. If Philip and Phyllis and/or Gwynneth had no children, then there ain't anyone from the family likely to be alive other than Patricia and her husband. So I can see why it is important to you to try to locate her.

The United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration (UNRRA) was proposed to the United States Congress by president Franklin Delano Roosevelt on June 9, 1943 to provide relief to areas liberated from Axis powers after World War II. Roosevelt had already obtained the approval of the governments of the United Kingdom, the Soviet Union, and China, and sought to obtain the endorsement of 40 other governments to form the first "United Nations" organization.

The Agreement for United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration founding document was signed by 44 countries in the White House in Washington, November 9, 1943. UNRRA was headed by a Director-General, and governed by a Council (composed of representatives of all state parties) and a Central Committee (composed of representatives of the U.S., the U.K., the dominion of Canada, the Republic of China, and the U.S.S.R.). The other countries who signed the agreement included: Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Czechoslovakia, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Ethiopia, the French Committee of National Liberation, Greece, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Iceland, India, Iran, Iraq, Liberia, Luxembourg, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, South Africa, Uruguay, Venezuela, and Yugoslavia.

Although the UNRRA was called a "United Nations" agency, it was established prior to the founding of the United Nations. The explanation for this is that the term "United Nations" was used at the time to refer to the Allies of World War II, having been originally coined for that purpose by Roosevelt in 1942.

OK, it's only from Wikipedia, but perhaps.....

I looked at the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales for info on Leslie George Heasman but there is nothing online. I bet if you write to them they will be able to tell you a bit more about him, and perhaps even when he died.

Oh, wills might be a good idea to look at - this family were clearly not poor and were well-connected.

Alan,

If you don't have her marriage cert, how do you know her middle name and father's name?

Rose

Rose (and Alan this is for you too) - the answer is that he doesn't know any of this for certain. I got the impression on page one that he did, cos he confirmed to me her age on marriage and that her father was Isaac John Cooper, and it was only later that he admitted that this information has come from his wife and her family (and from the record online of a sailing) and not from a marriage certificate. We are still waiting for the marriage certificate. Certainly a Doris M Cooper married a John H S Stewart in Holborn, and it appears they had a daughter Patricia E.P. Stewart in 1837 in Barton, Manchester, in 1837.

It is this Patricia that he is really wanting to trace, so I have sort of abandoned the search for Doris Marie Cooper for now, but you are right to raise the query. I would hate for him to be tracing the wrong person.

His wife is "sure" that Doris's mother was Priscilla Cooper, though there is some doubt as to whether she was a full sister of Isaac John (his wife's father).

I agree, Rose, that it isn't perfect, but as I say, I had started to concentrate on the India lot.

Just to say, Alan, my cousin's mother (my mum's sister) died when she was 6 months old. My cousin was initially brought up by my grandma and my then unmarried mother. She called them both Mum. Her father remarried, and she called his new wife Mum. She continued to call all three ladies mum until well into her teens, when my grandma died. She still called my Mum "Mum" until a few years ago when she felt it had become inappropriate after so long. She NEVER called her birth mother Mum, because she never knew her. She always referred to her as "My dad's first wife". And I am not talking of a callous, insensitive girl, my cousin is now in her sixties, a grandmother, and one of the nicest people I know. It just all got a bit confusing for her when she was a child, and the confusion stuck.

So we await this marriage certificate with interest. Was she Doris Marie, or Doris Mary, or Doris Margaret (cos we have no proof that she was one or the other), and was her father Isaac John or someone else?

Alan, you might think it unimportant, but so far, after extensive searching, we have failed to find any other living relative of this family who might help you to locate Patricia. Doris M Cooper might be the one to help us, especially if we find she is NOT the daughter of Isaac John.

If she is his daughter, then we are stuck again, cos he has apparently no such daughter on the census of the right name and age.

Hope we can get there for you!

Margaret

Answer to several questions,
Isaac John Cooper didn't have anymore siblings, also we have a copy of his birth cert. which match the details on the 1911 census.
To confirm Doris was Doris Marie,we have a Christmas card with a photo on it of the S.S. Strathaird sent to my wifes mother signed from Doris and Pat. 1938. Doris and Pat left U.K. on the S.S. Strathaird 9th December 1938.This is were we found that Doris was called Marie aged 34. from the passenger list. To confirm Patricia's full name we have a photo with writing on the back , "Patricia Elizabeth Pegeen the day of her christening July 14th 1937". We believe that Doris was a companion and travel all over Europe and to America before she was married, we have lots of postcards sent to her mother which were signed D.M.C. or just Doris.We also have postcards from Patna in Scotland, that is were John H. S. Stewart was born, so when I received the marriage cert. I am sure it will confirm Doris's name.
We also have a post card of the Cunard Line R.M.S Aquitania. with no writing on but can't match it with anything else.
Is there anyway of finding marriages in India I have looked up on the "findmypast" site and drawn a blank.
My wife and I would like thank every one who is trying to help us find Patricia and hope it will be a success.

Alan, I can't find the journey in December 1938, you say it confirmed she was Doris Marie. Can you direct me to that?

What makes you say Doris Cooper is also a traveller abroad?

Margaret, If you look on "findmypast" passenger lists leaving the U.K. I also found her leaving the U.K. in 1946 with John and Patricia, in 1950 just with John and in1954 with John and Patricia. It lookes like Patricia was left in the U.K. or India between 1946/1954 trips. We have photo's of Patricia in India when she was small with a nanny so it's possible she stayed in India.
The reason we know she travelled we have postcards she sent too her mother from all the places she visited.
Still not received the marraige cert. expecting it early next week.

Checking back on what Choocy found Doris and Patricia returned to the U.K. in 1948 back to the same address which they left from in 1946 [which is on the 1946 passenger list] but Doris and John left the U.K. on their own in 1950, which means that Patricia may have been left in the U.K. not India till 1954 when they all left for India.
Choocy, Could you please let me know which site are you looking on to find passengers entering the U.K.