Genealogy Chat

Hello to all, I am a newbie to family research, this thread caught my eye as I was 'informally adopted' a private arrangement between my parents and their friends at the time around 1975.

I have already hit proverbial walls on many fronts in my search and I will post in other areas as I progress. Here I am flummoxed with 'legal guardians' there seems to be little information about rights to information and responsibilites to retain or provide information

My parents' friends became my 'Guardians'; I'm sure this was more to do with finances rather than anything else! however I distinctly remember a Social Worker being involved for a short time.

I have since briefly looked into this matter Children Act 1975 and it indicates that formal notice needs to be provided to the Local Authority indicating intention to assume some responsibility for a child in this situation. A report is compiled by a social worker and presented to the courts, similar to that for adoption.

My query is related to whether these records are held anywhere, if so for how long ? I have contacted the Local Authority in question and was unable to get past a pretty unhelpful duty worker/receptionist who said all records would be destroyed by now !

However I'm not sure that information is correct or even helpful for anyone. I am exploring other avenues of tracing any known relatives however due to this 'gap' I have found it very difficult to ascertain whether I have the correct details for my mother, so I can't establish whether she is living or deceased.

I hope that is not garbled...basically and obvioulsy I need to identify my mother before commencing on a search- up to nowI have 2 birth certificates of same name 1 from Northern Ireland and 1 from Southern Ireland with similar but not exact details. Is it worth getting in the professionals?

Thank you Joy.K.Maid,
for the information.
I have just emailed Westminster Council to find out whether my half brother,
William Paul Griffiths was adopted or not.
:-)

http://www.adoptionsearchreunion.org.uk/default.htm

This website is intended to be the first port of call for anyone thinking about searching for or making contact with birth and adopted relatives or researching an adoption that took place in the UK. Here you can:
Search for the location of adoption records
Look for agencies that offer support services in your area
Learn about your right to make or refuse contact
Find out about recent changes to the legislation
Read about searching for and making contact with birth relatives
Use the Pointers for Practice for professionals working with adopted people, adopted parents and birth relatives

This is useful:
Using Social Networking Sites to Make Contact with Birth Relatives
http://www.adoptionsearchreunion.org.uk/contact/socialnetworking/

My dad was born in Scotland in July 1936, he was adopted in May 1937 by a couple who lived just a couple of streets away from the birth mother.
The birth mothers husband was not named as the father and when she gave birth, her address was different to her usual address, she had 4 children before my dad and one more after him.
I have found birth siblings but none of them will talk to me, it is so frustrating.

I was trying to find out where my dad was from July 1936 - May 1937 when he was adopted but I just can't find out.

This link may prove useful to

www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Registeringlifeevents/Birthandadoptionrecords/index.htm

Peter I think maybe what you are thinking of is where a child asks to be an emancipated minor almost like being divorced from their parents.
I have never heard of it in this country but know of a few cases in the US.
This would be similar i suppose to a termination of parental rights which must happen before an adoption takes place.
My Granny had two children who were raised by her parents as her siblings nothing formal just they took up the role of parents.

Some very good reading very imformative

We had a family member on my hubbies side that was brought up by his grandparents as his mum was unmarried and the same of it in those days ;-)

my grandmother was adopted, and I would love to find out more information on her birth parents. My nan died 17 years ago, of cancer, and I think one, or both, of the biological parents are of Mediteranean origin. Although I wouldn't wish to make contact with any relatives, as I suspect they wouldn't have known about my nan's existence as she was illegitimate. I have no idea where to start though, as all I know is what her date of birth is and her adopted parents names

thank you jonesey for that very interesting information,to answer a few points that you brought up
ive always thought that maybe my grandfathers adopted parents knew my grandmother,but ive not come up with anything yet,
also you mentioned you thought it strange that grandads adopted parents adopted him very early in their marriage,well ive got their marriage cert,but im only guessing when he was adopted,because all i really know is,that he was born in feb 1915,no father and mother a domestic servant(his birth mother reg his birth)and he was adopted,of course it was not a formal adoption,so no paper work hadto be done and he just could have been given away.anyway thank you for that useful info on adoption.x :-) :-) oh and i forgot to mention,i live in anglesey,so if you want me to check anything out for you,please just ask.x

Elaine,

As there was no formal adoption in England/Wales before 1927 any arrangement regarding your grandmother whilst still a child would have been an informal one.

As far as her surname is concerned, if whatever arrangement was reached was considered to be a permanent one then it is probable that she would become known by the family surname of the family who were caring for her. If on the other hand it was envisaged that the arrangement was to be only temporary then I would have thought it more likely that she would retain her original name.

Regarding why at the time of her first marriage no fathers name was recorded on the certificate but on the occasion of her 2nd marriage a fathers name was recorded. Firstly if she had been raised by people other than her birth family she may not have known who her biological father was. Secondly as far as I am aware it never has been, even to this day, a requirement to give your fathers name when getting married. She may therefore have declined to give her fathers name even if she knew it. Why then would she give a fathers name second time around? Who knows? Many possible explanations, Did she now know who her father was, did she no longer wish to decline giving his name, did she do what many others did I.E. "Invent" a father for social reasons.

I see that Jane Ellen went under the surname Kelly at the time of her 1st marriage. Have you found her under that name in the 1911 census?

Suzanne,

As you say it probably would have been very difficult for your single 17 year old great grandmother to cope with the raising of her son. He may indeed have been placed in a childrens home or perhaps placed into the temporary care of a child minder by his mother, possibly a relative. I am sure that you have probably heard of the terms "Nurse child" and "Baby farmer"

What seems a little strange is that he was "Adopted" in 1916 by a couple who had only just been married. Could one of the couple have been a relative of your great grandmother? Formal adoption did not begin until 1927 so unfortunately it is unlikely that you will be able to find any documentation relating to the arrangement that resulted in your grandfather being handed over to the couple. My understanding is that most of these unofficial "Adoptions" were either arranged through the child's family or through the church or charitable organisations.

Just as a matter of interest within my brother in laws family his great grandmother had his grandfather illegitimately in February 1881. At the time she was working as a servant in a hotel in Anglesey. She registered the birth and somehow managed to raise him herself. Oddly, although I found her in Anglesey on the 1881 census which was taken at the end of March that year the child did not appear to be with her. In fact I cannot spot him anywhere in 1881, perhaps she was hiding him under the bed or in the wardrobe (lol). Mother and child then returned together to her family home in Warwickshire. Unfortunately the mother died in 1884 and her son was then raised by her sisters.

Good luck in your quest to find where he was in 1915.

hi jonesey
my question is,how would a 17yr old domestic servant in 1915 cope with a illigitimate child(my grandad,born 1915 and adopted sometime in 1916)we know that his adopted parents were not married until jan 1916,would my grandmother have been able to keep him(i think not )if not where would he have been?.x :-D

Jonesey..

Thanks for all the info you have put on here,,

I have just sent the last Paragraph about Birth Relatives can request the info to a friend who needs her mothers adoption info as she has a disease that hey think has come from her mother's birth mothers side...

Sue

I know this is an old posting but as you are still around Jonesey I'd like to ask you a question.
You say...........................children themselves were rarely in any way to blame for their adoption.............

Please can you tell us when you believe a child IS responsible for their own adoption, thank you

Peter

PS this is the second time I have sent this, the first one just disappeared, sorry about that.

Peter,

I cannot give you specific cases of where a child might have been to blame for their own adoption. All I can offer is that I have read of instances where a parent has sought to have a child "adopted" because the child's behaviour was such that the parent could no longer cope with it.

As I stated I am sure that such instances were however, very rare.

Geraldine,

Under current legislation it is now a requirement that Adoption agencies are required by law to keep their records for at least 100 years.

New legislation also makes it possible for any birth relative of the adopted person to request the services of an agency licensed to offer an intermediary service to act on their behalf. The Adoption and Children Act 2002, defines a birth relative as being any person who is related to the adopted person by blood, including half blood or marriage.

Adoption Records are NOT protected for 75 years. However, it is a legal requirement that Adoption Records are KEPT for 75 years. These records can only be accessed by the adopted person.

The Freedom of Information Act does not include access to Adoption Records.

hi jonesey
your very good at this [tip of the day ]
thank you for all the advice it has helped so many people
keep up the good work
all the best
lorraine

Nudge

Nudge