Genealogy Chat

No.1 and I were just talking about Shuter St this morning, in ref to an architecture column I was reading in the Toronto Star and him, Toronto Boy, explaining to me where Dundas Square is. (There, I'd meant to google maps that for a look anyway.) 147 Shuter looks like a rather desirable bit of real estate, at the time (not so much, now). This *might* actually be a photo of it, the 3-storey mansard roof on the left (going by the image on the address on satellite view at google maps, and searching for Moss Park at google images).

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2008/04/01/moss-park-residents-don-t-expect-peace-to-last.aspx

Sherbourne crosses Shuter just to the east.

The cemetery where Mr Sandean was buried:

Prospect Cemetery & Mausoleum
1450 St Clair Avenue West
Toronto, ON M6E 1C6
(416) 651-4040

http://interment.net/data/canada/ontario/york/toronto/prospect/prospect.htm


http://www.torontofamilyhistory.org/toronto.html

Potter’s Field, the Necropolis and Mount Pleasant were the start of the cemetery group now known as the Mount Pleasant Group of Cemeteries. The Group now includes Prospect Cemetery (York Township 1890) Pine Hills Cemetery (Scarborough 1923), and York Cemetery (York Township 1948). The Group’s burial records can be viewed at their head office at Suite 500, 65 Overlea Blvd. Toronto. See: http://www.mountpleasantgroupofcemeteries.ca/our_cemeteries/. [dead link] The Mount Pleasant Group burial records are also available on microfilm from the Family History Library in Salt Lake City.


http://www.torontofamilyhistory.org/search.html

The Toronto Branch has designed an electronic search which provides a complete printout of all details in every record where the request is found in all transcribed records of historic York County.

http://www.torontofamilyhistory.org/search.html#cemetery
http://www.torontofamilyhistory.org/research.html

- you can request a cemetery index search.

This 41,722+ name index includes names in all published cemetery transcriptions (as well as many that are unpublished) for the City of Toronto and York Region (or what was historic York County). A search of our cemetery index will provide researchers with all occurrences of each surname searched. We will also indicate whether or not the material is published. Publication cost and order forms will be included. We also indicate the known archival location.

To request a search, print out the form below, fill it in and send it to, Toronto Branch, OGS, Cemetery Index Search, Box 518, Station K, Toronto, Ontario, Canada M4P 2G9. The search form must be accompanied by a cheque or money order, payable to, Toronto Branch OGS for a $5.00 flat fee for the first surname, plus $1.00 for each additional surname included with the request. Postage and handling is included.


You might want to browse that site.

I get a different one!


www.qp.gov.sk.ca/documents/gazette/part1/1998/g1199802.pdf

It's the Saskatchewan Official Gazette, i.e. the government publication of official notices about company filings and the like.

THE SASKATCHEWAN GAZETTE, JANUARY 9, 1998
EXPIRATIONS (1997)
Sandean Farms
Aug. 1
Montrose, R.M. 315

RM seems to mean rural municipality.

Google maps doesn't respond to Montrose, but there are numerous businesses called Montrose in Delisle, SK. Oh there we are, "Rural Municipality of Montrose" no 315. About 100 miles ENE of Kindersley where the sod house is, just SW of Saskatoon.

How excellent to have a reply like tht so fast from the Addison family!

I'm wondering whether Saskatchewan corporate records would have any contact info for the corporation that expired in 1997. This is the corporate registry website:

https://www.corporations.justice.gov.sk.ca/welcomessl.asp

Unfortunately there is a fee for searching the site, $2.00 per name, plus $3.00 to get director/owner names. That would total just under 3 GBP, so might be worth it.


Well done Margaret on finding that google result! I was using google.ca but got bogged down in the construction company in Wisconsin and Sandean Blackbird results. ;)

I looked at a Sandean? entry in the 1911 census in Ontario at automatedgenealogy and it was pretty obviously Landeau, so no go there.

Given how very unusual the name is, I wonder whether it might be worth it to try that constructin company? Mr Sandean could very well have made his way to Saskatchewan from the US. (That's one reason why western Canada is so much more right-wing than the rest of Canada; all the US immigration. Seriously.)

Aha, I see what the blackbird is -- from a cattle auction:

Male KJR 4P 1233846 DC155223 January 22 2004
Sire: G A R GRID MAKER
Dam: EASTONDALE BLACKBIRD 4’01
-- EDIT -- I managed to copy the wrong, er, dam thing, and I didn't put the URL here and I'm not going to hunt it up again -- what I was meaning to copy was the entry that had SANDEAN BLACKBIRD as the dam.

She's a cow! No doubt originally from Sandeans Farm. Blackbird seems to be a common name for cows, or a type of cow. Sandean Blackbird / Blackbird of Sandean seems to be a busy girl.

Bone Creek Ranch was where one of the auctions in question was. There's an address for it here:

www.sasklivestock.com/PDF%20Catalogs/bonecreek_2009_cover-12.pdf

or these seem to be the auctioneers:

http://www.cattlemanagement.ca/intro.html

and might be able to direct you. Somebody should know where Sandean Blackbird is these days, and where she came from!

Thanks a million, Margaret,
I have just looked at the obituary and it is certainly proof that she DID marry a Mr Sandean!
Now we can start looking for her second husband Mr Myers - or the marriage of Vera, as we know she had two daughters.
Thanks so much
Jill

Check this out:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1601&dat=19450323&id=UU8ZAAAAIBAJ&sjid=rSQDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7987,6173332


An obituary of William Anderson Sandean, husband of Dorothy Walker Sandean and father of Vera, 22 March 1945, Toronto.

If the link doesn't work google "sandean toronto".. It's the second one that comes up.

More news on Dorothy Walker thanks to Julie, Janie, Margaret et al,
I contacted the Addisons and the daughter of James Addison died last year age 97, but her daughter replied to me and a great niece of Charles Addison actaully remembers Dorothy who worked for several farmers in the area after leaving the Addisons, and she had her photograph taken with Dorothy and is looking it out for me!!! How about that for a stroke of luck?
I think the next move might be to look in some old Canadian telephone books for Toronto, don't you think?
Thanks everyone.
Jill

Good morning Janey, You are a great help! Thank you for all those pointers.
Having spoken to Dorothy's goddaughter again, she is adamant that the name is SANDEAN as she corresponded with Dorothy as late as 1947 when informing her of her brother's death, and that was the name they always put on the letters.
But I shall check out all the routes available - if any:(
As you say, negatives are a positive if they eliminate something.
Thanks very, very much.
Jill

You may want to bookmark this for future ref, it being unfortunately not much use now:

https://www.isc.ca/VitalStatistics/Genealogy/vsgs_srch.aspx

The site for searching Saskatchewan vital records (BMDs).

The cutoffs are the same as for most provinces -- for births it is actually 100 years, so you have no hope of accessing her chldren's birth records during their ... or your ... lifetime. ;)

The problem at this point is that only births are searchable. Deaths (over 70 years ago) are searchable only to 1917 at present, and marriages (over 75 years ago, i.e. to 1934) are not searchable at all. The indexing of marriages won't start until the indexing of births is done.

So you won't find the birth of Vera Sandean/Sugden/Walker in Canada, unfortunately. (Well, for you; I wholeheartedly support our privacy rules here!)

Ontario records are available only at Ancestry and they have the same cutoff dates, more or less.

Just to add, the site posted by Jooleh has the .ca extension, if you want to find it:

www.collectionscanada.ca


Next up, the phone book: http://www.whitepages.ca/

There is no phone listing in Canada for the surname Sandean. I agree this must be some sort of misreading. Can you say where it has come from?

If the name is Sugden, there are four listings for that name in Saskatchewan. Bizarrely, they are all "address unavailable", something I've never seen there. Craven and Kipling, Sask, are likely small enough places that a letter would reach the people, since there are first names given.


You can search several Canadian censuses to 1911 free here:

http://www.automatedgenealogy.com

If the name was Sugden, there was a household of Sugdens in Qu'Appelle Sask in 1911, including 2 boys aged 10 and 4. Qu'Appelle is a couple of hundred miles from Kindersley, where the sod house is, though.


No help at all, am I?

You need to know what you won't be able to find, though, so that's it. ;)

I've printed out photos of the Addison Sod house, Julie, as we like to think aunty Dorothy must have gone to work there when she first arrived in Canada.
I shall try to find out if there is any record of any staff who worked there.
Thanks for your help,
Jill

Well I suppose that there's always the chance that the two families stayed in touch.You can but hope.

Do take a look at the collectionscanada site as there's lots of useful info there including places to contact for BMD information.

Keep us posted if you find anything else out!

Julie

That's fascinating, Julie, thanks a heap - I shall awa' to Google d'reckly (as they say in cornwall)
I wonder how she knew him to go and work for him. We know she went to work in a logging camp and then back to Toronto. The family here just wish they could contact her daughter, Vera Sandean and her two daughters. Frustratingly we have a photograph of them!
thanks again,
Jill.

Dear Jill

I watched your thread with interest in October but couldn't join in as I hadn't renewed my subscription. In case you haven't already found this for yourself I found some fascinating info on the Addisons which may just give a bit of background or may prove to be a useful source of info.

As posted earlier by other peeps, Charles F Addison was on the Canada 1911 census with his brother James T and family. James' wife was Janie Lizza and they had 3 children, the youngest being Edith who was born 1909.

James became famous as the person who built the 'Addison Sod House' which is now an historic site/museum. Just google it.

Sod House doesn't sound very nice does it – but it's lovely- I would happily live in a house like that!

See here for a picture of it and of his daughter Edith aged about 94:

http://www.tpcs.gov.sk.ca/PHP-booklet-addison-sod-house

At the time the booklet was produced (I think 2003) she was still living there. As her name is Gardiner I presume she married, so she may have descendents who know some family stories. The museum staff may be able to put you in touch with them.

You might also find the Canada library site a useful source of information:

www.collectionscanada

Hope you manage to find out more about Dorothy. Happy Hunting!

Julie

There has been a suggestion - although I doubt this memory - that Dorothy Walker could have died during World War ll. The other suggestion is that she married for the second time to Mr Myers when she was older.
Any advice on what I should do next - or is that 'end of'?
Thanks for any help given, anyway,
cheers,
Jill

Sorry Margaret, I had to leave off last night - strong as the pull was!
It looks as if you have found a Liverpool family that did the usual thing of emigrating and sending for the others. It sounds like the right one. Just wish it was Dorothy's family!
The elderly relation of Dorothy Walker seems to think that she only went for a holiday adventure and used to send parcels home to the family in Liverpool. She kept in touch until after her second marriage so could have died/moved/lost touch. Actually 32 seems to be quite a late age for a single woman to emigrate - I wonder if there had been a love affair or something...... Oh, I can make it up as I go along!
Thanks again,
cheers, Jill

Is that the same one that I'm looking at and there's a brother James T.? Because on the 1911 census in Battleford, Saskatchewan there's a James T. Addison born England. He has wife & children and they all emigrated in 1907. He also has his brother Charles Addison with him who was born July 1890, England and emigrated 1910.

I've just found Charles on the 1901 with his father James in Liverpool in the same district as Dorothy lived, so there could have been knowledge of each other before he went out to Canada as she seemed to have the job lined up before she went.
Jill.

Thanks Margaret.
The passenger details are the first we knew of where she was going to work. We only knew she was cook in a logging camp. We also don't know the Liverpool area where Mr Addison came from, but we have some old Liverpool maps we will look it up on to see if he lived near her - although it doesn't sound familiar or wasn't near to Bulwer St which was all terraced houses. Perhpas she worked for his family in Liverpool.
Shall I be clever like you when I grow up???? :)
cheers, Jill

This doesn't help much but I wonder if this is the C.F. Addison who she was going to work for in Saskatchewan. He was born in Liverpool and she might have known him there.
Attestation papers for soldiers of WW1.
Charles Frederick Addison.
Born 27 July, 1890, St. Annes Parish, Liverpool.
Single.
Present address, Avonhill, Saskatchewan.
Next-of-kin, father James Addison, 4 Albany Rd., Stoneycroft, Liverpool.

If I find the birth of Vera Sandean (or Vera Walker) in Canada, how would I go about ordering her birth certificate?
Thanks,
Jill

Wow! tthanks for that everyone. She obviously already had the job in Saskatchewan when she left England as the lady's companion. Thanks for looking. I was wondering if perhaps Vera had been born out of wedlock and was registered as Vera Walker?
What do you think?
thanks,
Jill

I thought I might have better luck with the name Sandean, it being such an unusual name, but have had no luck at all. Sorry.