Genealogy Chat

Hi, just wondered if anyone would mind helping me with some information, I have had a look but have come to a bit of a stop.

I am trying to find out details with regards to my grandad's first marriage (which I only know about from the 1881 census), these are the details I have so far:

Charles French (born J/A/S 1953 in Marylebone) was married to Pheolis French (born 1852 in Hammersmith) on the 1881 census - on the 1891 census it shows him with Emily French his second wife, so either Pheolis died prior to this as cannot find her under Pheolis French on the census after 1881 or she remarried perhaps?

I have found a marriage for Charles French in 1877 in Kensington (which is where they were living in 1881) but due to how long ago I can't find out the maiden name of the person he married so I can then check for Pheolis birth and also cannot find anything for her death.

Would anyone be able to help please.

Many thanks
xx

Have you tried freebmd.org?

I cant actually see a Charles French marrying in Kensington 1877? I have never heard of the name Pheolis? Could it be an error?

Hi Heather

I checked on here and it was for Jan/Feb/Mar 1977 in Kensington, I haven't checked on freebmd.org - are they any good?

Many Thanks

Hazel xx

Its the records used by GR and ancestry - but I cant see any marriage for a Charles from March quarter 1877 in Kensington.

One of the kids birth certs would give the wifes surname.

Hi Heather

Does that mean that Genes has it wrong?

Thanks

Hazel

Its a very common name, are you sure its the same bloke in both censi?

What kids did Emily have with Charles?

No I don't know - I have just double checked and there is a Charles French for that time (Vol 1a Page 251), but I can't find anything for Pheolis so I was trying to see if there was anyway of searching something else to get more info if that makes sense

Thanks x

Work backwards from your own GPs. Emily and Charles - you know that Emily is your GM? Buy their cert or buy one of their kids birth certs - that will give you mums maiden name and dads full name and occupation. From there you can find the marriage.

On the 1891 where are they living?

Can you paste and copy the 1877 info for the marriage as its not appearing anywhere on ancestry either.

Is this the 1891 - with Emily? Charles shown born 1855 not 52?

Name: Charles French
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Emily
Gender: Male
Where born: St Marylebone, London, England

Civil parish: St Marylebone
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:


Registration district: Marylebone
Sub-registration district: Rectory
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles French 36
Emily French 22
Charles French 3
William B French 2

There is a marriage in 1887 - not 1877? with a Charles French and one of the brides is an Emily:?

Marriages Dec 1887
CRAIG Emily Frances London City 1c 44
FRENCH Charles Frederick London City 1c 44
PULLEN Adeline Maud London C. 1c 44
Watmore Henry London C. 1c 44

Hi Heather

On marriages on here I just put in Charles French - and a marriage shows in 1977 on the J/F/M part.

I know the info about Emily - it is Pheolis his first wife that I am trying to find the information - but know idea for certain when they got married (guessing that it may be the 1977 one as in Kensington) but cannot find her birth as don't know her maiden name and can't find her death - I didn't know whether there is anyway to find out their marriage without purchasing loads of certificates on the off chance it is the right one

Many thanks for your help
xx

sorry what am I like - first I get the year wrong and now I have put it as 1977!! I do mean 1877 but I am looking for the Charles and Pheolis marriage - I though it would be easier with her name being unusual

so sorry
x

Thats ok, common name.

So when did Charles and Emily marry and is that them in the 1891? What is Emilys maiden name? Does his job match the guy in 1881?

I wonder if you have entered a different event rather than marriage to get the 1877 date?

No definitely looked under marriages.

I know about Emily's marriage to Charles it is details regarding Pheolis (his first wife) that I am struggling with

Thanks

I presume this is the marriage you found.

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

Marriages Mar 1877 (>99%)

BLYTH Amelia Woolwich 1d 1001
Brown Eleanor Woolwich 1d 1001
Costelow Frederick James Woolwich 1d 1001
<<French Charles Woolwich 1d 1001

This Charles must have married either Amelia Blyth or Eleanor Brown.

If you use Free BMD when you have found one partner click on the number and it will bring up the other people on the same page and one of them will be the spouse.

Edited, just realised you said it was in Kensington.

Christine.

For ref;

1881 England Census
about Charles French
Name: Charles French
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Husband (Head) (Head)
Spouse's Name: Pheolis
Gender: Male
Where born: Marylebone, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Kensington
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 5 Thomas Place (Common Lodging Ho)
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Wood Chopper

Registration district: Kensington
Sub-registration district: Kensington Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 32b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Charles French 28
Pheolis French 29 B. Hammersmith, Middlesex

The 1881 census shows that they are in a "common lodgings house", don't want to sound abit "off" here........ but could that be a wee hotel where you may have went with a certain type of Lady????

Does the marriage certificate of Charles French to Emily show that he was a widow???

I've just checked Free BMD and these are the 4 names for the Page and vol number you found.

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

Marriages Mar 1877 (>99%)


CARTER William Kensington 1a 251
Freeman Charles Kensington 1a 251
PARSONS Mary Jane Kensington 1a 251
WEST Louisa Kensington 1a 251

Christine

Hi Denise

Do you think that what you said in your message could be the case - any ideas are welcome x

Hi Christine

Can I ask some advice on when you search on FREE BMD, I have tried but don't seem to be able to get the info up you like have - do you have to be a member of their site?

Thanks xxx

Hi Hazel,

You don't have to be a member of Free BMD and it is completely free.

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/

When you use the site do not put your ancestors name in the box at the top of the page as that is an advert for Ancestry. and will take you to their site.

Click on the red search box lower down the page on the left.

When you have found one partner from the marriage click on the page number and it will bring up all other names on the same page.

I checked the image for the qtr you mentioned in 1877 and the only Charles French to marry in that qtr was the one I posted earlier in Woolwich so I think GR records must be wrong as it is Charles Freeman for that ref number.

Christine

nudge