Genealogy Chat

PME, Thank you for your advice. It looks as if that is what I may have to do with 1891 census, unless I can come up with a shorter route.
I'll give this branch of my family a rest for a while.......they are turning out more complicated than I thought.
The other relatives seem almost normal by comparison!!
Liz

Dee, you have been a star. Thank you for taking the time to help. I'm giving the Gleeson/Coley family up for today as I have double checked all info looked at before & come up with nothing new.
Any ideas you may come upwith please pass on.
Again, thanks .
Liz

Liz, I'm just popping the 1881 census up, just incase someone else can help.

This is basically all the census info we have;

1881 England Census
about Ellen Gleeson
Name: Ellen Gleeson
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Relation: Lodger (Head) (Lodger)
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street address: Allison St 70
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Paper Sorter

Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Welch 59
Bridget Welch 70
Ellen Gleeson 46
Ann Coley 19 Born Birmingham, Warwickshire
Patrick Brown 60


All the other household are born Ireland.



Dee x

Hi Liz,

I've turned the 1891 census upside down and inside out trying to find them........... I'm now wondering if Ann was hiding from William??? If she was she most probably would have given incorrect names for herself and Ellen.

I'll keep looking though.............. it's possibly mistranscribed to something ridiculous.


Dee xxx

Some of my ancestors who have proved tricky to find have appear in their parents siblings or their siblings households on census's sometimes with incorrect/mis-spelt first and second names.

Might be worth tracing siblings and Aunts and Uncles households, in the year they are missing.

Edit: on ancestor I couldn't find I looked through all the census pages for the district I suspected they'd be, and they were there but had been badly mistranscribed, hence them not appearing on any search I did even with various wildcards.

Just a thought Dee, Would both Ann & Ellen show up on 1891 census if they were both still in the workhouse? Although any children in the Western Rd. wookhouse after the age of 3yrs were, apparently, sent to a childrens home in, I think, Marston Green.
I had assumed that as William was working, Ann had her baby in the workhouse as it had an infirmary, but I suppose he could have left them there.
Again, thanks for trying to help

Hi,

From family search;

Elizabeth Gleeson Pedigree
Female


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: 10 MAR 1863

Christening: 22 MAR 1863 St Peter'S, Birmingham, Warwick, England

Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: Patricii Gleeson Family
Mother: Helenae Lynch



Still doesn't help though.......... can't see her on the census returns!!!!

Chocci,
1861 + 1871 census gives William's mother as 'Hannah'. So does IGI list of children for William & Hannah, so I took it that the mistake was in 1891 census.
Thank you so much for taking an interest.
Liz

Let me put it this way Chocci , he sounded a bit of so-and-so.
His daughter (my grandmother) Ellen, never had a good word to say about him.
When he died a notice was put in a newspaper asking for relatives to get in touch.........she didn't !! Although they must have been in touch at earlier times judging from the bits of info. passed down.
Liz

Just to clarify - William Henry's parents are William and Harriett, not William and Hannah.

Mis-transcribed on 1881 census.

Was going to suggest you had the wrong William Henry Coley, but having just seen your posting re marriage details -

1881 England Census
Name: William Coley
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Hannah
Gender: Male
Where born: B'ham, Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street address: 7 CT 2 Ryland St *************
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Stamper

Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: Lady Wood
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Coley 60
Hannah Coley 47
William Coley 22

William Coley stated to be 'unmarried' !! Perhaps wishful thinking!

Yes I have the marriage cert. Date = 25 Sept.1880
William Henry Coley of 7 court,Ryland St
Father: William Coley - glass blower
Ann Gleeson of 12 Court, Moor St.
Father: Patrick Gleeson - labourer
Witnesses: Henry Freer & Jane Freer.
As for William on 1881 &1891 census'; fathers name & occupation & address match info. given on marriage cert.

You are kind to keep looking.......this has been giving me a headache for ages.
Liz

Hi Liz,


I'm still looking.........

Do you have their marriage cert........ it's sounds like you haven't, it would tell you her fathers name on it and the witnesses maybe of some help (often family members).

On the 1881 and 1891 census William is stated as unmarried or single......... is it definately the correct chap?


Dee xx

Hi Dee,
The nearest I have got is on family search :
Anna Gleeson b.26 June 1861. christened 21 july 1861 at St Peters, Birmingham (which would fit as that was a RC church)
Parents: Pateiccii (Patrick) Gleeson & Helenae Lynch.
As both parents were from Ireland this sounded a possibility but, as I have failed to track them further back, it could be just desperation on my part.
Liz

Hi Liz,

have you found Ann or Ellen previously to 1881??

Sometimes it helps to go backwards to then again come forwards???


Dee xx

Hello Denise,
Yes, that's her. (She was my grandmother.) I know that not all anecdotes can be relied upon but I understood that she had always lived, gone to school and worked around, what was at that time, the Aston area of Birmingham.
I can track her from 1901 & her marriage in 1904 but prior to that.........nothing.
Thank you for looking.
Liz

Hi,

So is this Ellen??

1901 England Census
about Ellen E Coley
Name: Ellen E Coley
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Bham, Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish: Aston
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Deritend
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 147
Household Members: Name Age
Ellen E Coley 18
Florence Gibbs 17


Dee x

Ann Gleeson (19yrs.) married William Henry Coley (21yrs) on 25th Sept.1880 in St Michaels RC church, Moor St; Birmingham.

1881 census: = Ann Coley living with her mother Ellen Gleeson as lodgers with others at Allison St, Birmingham.
William living with his parents (William & Hannah) in Ryland St, Birmingham

20 April 1882; Ann gave birth to a daughter, Ellen Elizabeth Coley in the Birmingham workhouse , Western Rd. William Coley shown as 'father'.

1891 census:= William Henry Coley still living with his parents. No record found for Ann or their daughter.

Ann died 1901, Aston, Birmingham. Ellen E. Coley notifiying of the death.

As no admission or discharge records remain for this workhouse, has anyone any idea where to look to fill in the missing years for Ann & daughter Ellen?