Genealogy Chat

Island - rude or not, I was telling you to get the certificate if you want to be sure of resolving this matter. Whether this resolution is worth 7 quid to you is your concern.

BTW, which post am I supposed to be checking?

I had thought of that possibility especially as we have not been able to trace a marriage license.All the family insist that there was a wedding but anyone who might have attended is sadly no longer with us. All of Aunties papers were destroyed when she died by the people she was living with (in an attempt to muddy the waters about her financial position and who had been left what) and her son had died 3 months previously so I guess it will remain one of lifes mysteries

Mr Meddows registering the birth might be a brazen move to cover up the fact that they WEREN'T married.?

Gwyn

Good one. ;)

It's like people with their computer passwords today -- they stick to the tried and true!

My gr-grfather changed his surname to conceal his identity -- but when he named his father on his marriage certificate, gave the fake father the same first name as his real father. Lucky for me!

So I now have Eric's birth cert and interesting reading it made. I now know his fathers name but suddenly he has a different mother or rather 2 mothers.
Mr Meddows registered the birth and ,presumably in an attempt to cover up the fact that his son's mother was not his "legal" wife under mothers names he has given his legitimates wife's christian name and my aunts maiden name.
So if aunty didn't know the truth already she sure would then.

Eviebeavie,
Many thanks for that.

Yes Sarah is the sister she was staying with and who introduced her to Mr Meddows/Meadows.

Still no sign of a marriage entry and have tried using both spellings.Am going to order Erics birth cert and see what it say's now I have a birth ref for him
Watch this space

Is this Esther's sister?

Marriages Jun 1917
Rutherford Thomas W Youdell Ulverston 8e 1341
Youdell Sarah Rutherford Ulverston 8e 1341


There are Rutherford-Youdell births in Stratford dist as well.

Births Sep 1917
RUTHERFORD Elizabeth Youdell Stratford 6d 1375

Births Sep 1919
Rutherford Mary Youdell Stratford 6d 1378

Births Dec 1920
Rutherford Robert Y Youdell Stratford 6d 1591

Births Sep 1922
Rutherford John Youdell Stratford 6d 1510


-- just to place Esther in the circumstances you described.

How about

Births Dec 1920
Meadows Eric (mother Meadows) Banbury 3a 2036

"The district Banbury spans the boundaries of the counties of Northamptonshire, Oxfordshire and Warwickshire"

?


Nope. Got him. Just searched for all births with mother Youdell.


Births Jun 1921
Meddows Eric Y (mother Youdell) Stratford 6d 1778

Claverdon is in Stratford reg dist.

Many thanks for all your observations and suggestions.

My Aunt married and had a child by this man before discovering he was still married. I have the sons birth date but no sign of the marriage entry or birth record for Eric
Just in case it's me I will post what I know and see if anyone else can find them.
Esther Youdell bn 1896 in Lancashire.
Eric Meadows bn 1921,Claverdon
so somewhere between those dates she married a Mr Meadows.We don't know his christian name .
Not sure if the marriage took place at home in Lancashire.We know they met while she was staying with a sister in Warwickshire so possibly got married down there.

So over to you

If the bigamy never came to the attention of the registrar, then you will be able to get a certificate of the marriage.

If there was a conviction, the registrar was informed and a certificate will not be issued, because it would be certifying a falsehood -- that a marriage took place. (A ceremony took place, but a marriage didn't -- the marriage was void from the outset because one party was not free to marry.)

Undoubtedly quite a lot of bigamous marriages did slip through the cracks!

If someone obtains a certificate of such a marriage, knowing that it was bigamous, one would hope it will not be passed on to future generations as proof of marriage. ;)

I have a relative who married his 2nd wife while his 1st one was still alive on the certificate he stated was a widower, not only that his first wife also married again and she stated she was a widow, I have got all three certificates.

Hi,

I have one of these in my family and the registration still appears in the GRO index. I don't know if you can order the cert though as I have never tried that. I wouldn't have thought so though because the bigamous marriage wasn't a legal marriage.

Caz

Island -
I don't think you can assume overmuch from the indices. I realize it might be hard to decide if a) Flora Birnie Anderson married Frederick Hrynyk or b) Flora Birnie Anderson married Fred Hrynyk. This very similar to my ex's gran's case. Equally hard, did Frederick Hrynyk marry Flora Birnie Anderson or the widow Flora Birnie Mutch.
(Get the certificate)

There will still be an entry in the book, but neither the GRO nor the local RO can issue a certificate for an entry they believe to be false. This is also true in Scotland, but there, unlike England, one can buy uncertified copies of the registery pages, and so can see these false entries - there will be a marginal notation that flags it as a false entry, either directly or indirectly.
There is an example of a bigamous Scottish marr with its entries at:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=554&403

Hi redhotmama

I have the same problem so I phoned a registrar for advice. She told me that a marriage entry shows that a wedding ceremony took place.

What happens after that, ie divorce, discovery of bigamy etc doesn't alter the fact that a wedding ceremony took place, therefore the entry would not be deleted in any way.

Hope this helps.

Dianne xx

A friend is doing a registered one name study and GRO would not issue a certificate for a marriage which she suspected was bigamous. The entry was still listed, but must have been 'flagged' in some way.
If you have an idea of the church in which it may have taken place, the parish registers might show the details.

Gwyn

Perhaps.

I was helping someone recently and we discovered the husband had been married twice. It was mentioned on The Old Bailey online and he went to prision because of it.

However, we couldn't find the 2nd marriage and wondered the same thing.

Rose

Hi there, does anyone know if a marriage was discovered to be bigamous would the entry have been removed from the register?