Genealogy Chat

Alice M A Adams born 1893 is in Bethnal Green for the 1911 so that is probably the one who married John Wood the following year.

Two Alices who could have married John Wood 1912 Bethnal Green -- she was Alice M A Adams:

Births Sep 1885
Adams Alice Mary A St. Olave 1d 268
Births Sep 1893
Adams Alice Mary A Mile End 1c 467


There isn't a birth to match this Alice/Mary Quantick in the censuses, is there?


1891 in Putney, for info, per Ancestry:

William Quanbeck 26
Alice Quanbeck 24
Tracey Quanbeck 3 (son)
Mary Quanbeck 2

Births Dec 1887
Quantick Tracey Fulham 1a 291

Ah. Here she is:

Births Mar 1889
Quantice Alice Wandsworth 1d 771


It is indeed heartbreaking (quite apart from frustrating for a searcher) to see how many of the war dead have no personal details - no dob, no next of kin, sometimes no name, as you say. I kind of think the CWGC people should more actively encourage people to submit info about relations who were casualties.

It is heartbreaking to see how many J H Woods there are on the CWGC who they don't know anything about apart from their name,number, the service they were in and where their memorial is.

Yes I found that one myself but I can't find an Alice Hagley and there are so many James Adams with wives called Alice. I couldn't find a Florence Adams or Hagley that i could discount either.

I did find an Alice Adams marrying a John Wood june 1/4 1912 but its a long shot. As for deaths of John Henry Wood on CWGC I'm still working on that.

She could be this one:

Marriages Mar 1906
Adams James Wandsworth 1d 789
HAGLEY Thomas Edmund Wandsworth 1d 789
QUANTICK Alice May Wandsworth 1d 789
Saunders Florence Wandsworth 1d 789

Found Thomas Hagley with son Sidney in 1911 but there's no wife with him.

Rose

Rob has replied with Dollys parents names

Alice Wood formerly Quantick and John Henry Wood

This may be the Alice M Quantick who appears on the 1901with father William and mother Alice (MMN Tracey) who was born Putney C1889. (Shes also on the 1891 as Mary) However, I can't find her on 1911 which is typical.

Going to have to go offline for a bit as I've made a mess of downloadingg an update. Hope OH can sort it!!!

Quantick=Quantock
Where are the Quantock hills =Somerset
Which is next door to??
No help I know ,but I just had to do that
Get OFF my shoulder right NOW you naughty little imp.
**********************************
My aunt is a doreen known as Dolly when she was a child,so my money is on it being Doreens cert and they changed the date so she could not be traced through her date of birth maybe,for some reason,as then she becomes a whole new person.

So, theres no Quantick/Wood marriage in England, Wales, Scotland or overseas so Miss Quantick (if thats her name) told big porkies. Somehow, Doreens parent/s got hold of that particular certificate and falsified it again.

I don't buy it, I bet Doreen was Dolly but i keep coming back to, why change the birth date?

The problem is, Charles and Florence were popular names then. My grandfather was named Charles but there wasn't another Charles in the family and the same with my great aunt Florence on the other side.

The turn of the 20th century seems to have been the start of the end of traditional naming patterns and the start of name fashions.

Anyway, I've e-mailed Rob, poor bloke, he must think I'm some sort of stalker!

Aha.

QUANTICK FLORRIE EVELEN F 1900 11 Edmonton Middlesex

One of the Worsley-Quanticks is Charles.

And that Florence's father, in the 1911, is:

QUANTICK CHARLES R M 1874 37 Edmonton Middlesex

I'm changing my bet. ;)

Or should I refer to Edmonton, Staines and Wandsworth as

the QUANTICK TRIANGLE!

Florence born Staines 1895 is in Ashford Berks in 1901 and on the same census so is Florence born 1900. In 1911 Florence 1895 is in Plymouth but the other one is in Edmonton.

I think in future I shall refer to Putney, Edmonton/Wood Green and St Pancras as

The ROOKE TRIANGLE!

Quantick seems to come pretty exclusively from Devon.

There are these possibly interesting births after 1911:


Births Dec 1921
Quantick George W Quantick Edmonton 3a 1062

Births Mar 1924
Worsley John A Quantick Edmonton 3a 958
Births Mar 1926
Worsley Louisa F Quantick Edmonton 3a 1034
Births Sep 1936 (from Ancestry)
Worsley Charles W Quantick Hackney 1b 548

Births Jun 1925
Nelson Albert W Quantick W.Ham 4a 329

Births Jun 1926
Sawyer Phyllis A Quantick W.Ham 4a 432

and more later of course.


The births in Edmonton-Hackney could be to one woman who wasn't married for the first.

I do wonder whether Doreen/Dolly wasn't the child of a man killed in WWI, and placed with the Rookes one way or another when the mother couldn't keep her, and they then altered the cert. Unfortunate that the father would have surname Wood. With his full name it might be possible to check that possibility.


edit - aha, the marriage to go with - Worsley isn't transcribed yet so at first I didn't find it when I searched the other way:

Marriages Dec 1923
Quantick Florence E Worsley Edmonton 3a 1325

Births Jun 1895
> Quantick Florence Evelyn Staines 3a 7

Births Dec 1897
Quantick Florence Elizabeth Williton 5c 246

Births Dec 1900
Quantick Florence Eveline St. Austell 5c 105
> Quantick Florence Evelyn Staines 3a 3

Births Jun 1901
QUANTICK Florence Emma Newton A. 5b 124
Deaths Mar 1902
Quantick Florence Emma 0 Newton A. 5b 107


Every blasted Florence born 1890-1901 was an "E". None after that.

I've contacted Tracy and Barrie and am now waiting for a reply. I've also contacted someone on here (the name escapes me) who has quite a few female Quantick's in her tree in the right areas who would have been of childbearing age in 1918.

Poor Rob at wandsworth is going to get fed up with me contacting him but before I ask him for Dolly's mum's name I should really check to see if there is an overseas marriage for Quantick/Wood.

Does anyone have a sub to find my past?

I think I might get in touch with the GR members with this person / these people in their trees:

Dolly Wood 1920 Unk. Tracy
Dolly Wood 1919 Unknown Barrie


No other Dolly Wood was born 1917-1921 in England/Wales.

... In fact, I know I'd get in touch with them!


No one named Dolly born 25 Oct 1918 has died since 1984.

Janet,

Was the registration date of 30/12/1919 altered too?

Just wondering because 25/10 - 30/12 is greater than 6 weeks. This would make it a late registration and there could be penalties to pay.

One reason to alter the birth date would be to avoid this.

Rose

If Rob could give you the parent's names for Dolly that would save some money and time.

It doesn't make sense to go to the trouble to alter Dolly's cert. if she is Doreen. One reason for choosing Dolly could be because it was easier to alter Dolly to Doreen and then Wood to Rooke.

I wonder if it was some kind of baby selling agency/orphanage that didn't have a cert. for Dorothy so they just altered one they had, and changed the entry number so it couldn't be traced. Apart from the faint brown marks they did do a rather good job of altering the certificate. I would appear they had some skill in washing ink.

Rose

Well it appears that the certificate belongs to Dolly Wood born 25th October 1918 entry 349 Book 52.

Now Dolly Wood's mother's maiden name is Quantick. Theres no Quantick/Wood marriage on free bmd and I've checked the full indexes from 1911-1918. So it appears Dolly is illegitimate.

My problem is, is Dolly actually Doreen? If so why change the birthdate? If Dolly isn't how did they get the certificate to falsify in the first place.

Oh, you'll love this, there are Quanticks in Staines and Wandsworth both areas that were familiar to the Rookes.

I won't disagree with the queries about the questioning of Lily's integrity. ;) It does just seem a coincidence though.

I do really think the forgery may have been a private job, to get Ernest and Ethel an adopted child by taking matters into their own hands.

I'd have the altered certificate examined by a forensic document examiner. I would imagine they would be able to determine at least some of what the certificate originally said.

Just google

forensic document examiner uk
or
forensic document examination uk

and there are loads.

This site has a list, for instance:

http://www.sciencecentral.com/site/482087

Poor Lily. Condemned as a forger purely on the basis of her occupation!

Now, I may be quite wrong here, but surely if Lily was the registrar she would not need to take an unwanted certificate and alter the details. The certificates that are issued are after all only certified copies of the original information which has been entered in the register. So if Lily were the registrar and wanted a certificate with false details on it, could she not just start with a blank certificate and put in what she wanted. Why would she need to alter an existing certificate?

What was the date of issue of the altered certificate, and which details appear to have been altered? It occurs to me that, if the dates fit, it might more likely have been altered in order for someone to claim their old age pension when it was introduced (or something of that sort).

Incidentally, I am not sure that I agree with the suggestion that short certificates were usually obtained in order to cover up the fact that the individual was illegitimate. In my own family, I have a number of short certificates that have been passed down to me. None of the individuals was illegitimate. In each case they seem to have been obtained when a birth cert was needed to claim some sort of benefit, or when applying for a job (some employers asked to see birth certs). If you could not find your original certificate and had to buy another one, the short certificate was cheaper.

Tina

PS I have just gone back and re-read the beginning of the thread and realise that the pension/job argument does not hold water as the certificate was issued so soon after the birth. But I still think Lily is being unfairly vilified!!!!!!