Genealogy Chat

Hi Everyone,
Thanks so much for your input!
Thank you to mgnv,Sylvia and Selena for your replies.

The Sardinian Chapel is a Roman Catholic Church which now goes by the name of The Church of St Anselm and St Cecilia.Here is a website link that has the church history on it:
http://www.rcdow.org.uk/lincolnsinnfields/aboutus/default.asp
Is it likely that these Baptism records are at the church?If I wanted to search their Baptisms from 1863 how would I go about this?(I am in Australia)

mgnv-Please forgive my ignorance....what is the LMA?

Sylvia-thank you for mentioning that the Catholics didn't co-operate with the Mormons,I wasn't aware of that.

Selena-you mentioned the death certificate for Robert Ewins from 1856.I have been assuming(I know...never assume!!) that this was a child and this reasoning has clouded my thoughts.What I found was:

I have found 2 possible births for Robert Ewins(the son) however there is also a death entry so it is possible that one of them died.
Here they are:
The first possible birth...
Name: Robert Ewins
Year of Registration: 1852
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: St Giles
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: 336 (click to see others on page)

The second possible birth....
Name: Robert Ewins
Year of Registration: 1855
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: St Giles
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: 343 (click to see others on page)

Either of those could be this death....
Name: Robert Ewins
Year of Registration: 1856
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: St Giles
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: (click to see others on page)
They have left off the page number but I had a look and think it says Volume 1b page 225.

As I was looking for Robert(the son) I was thinking that 2 babies were born and that one of them died.I hadn't thought that this death could be Robert Ewins-the father.Is there any way of checking the death age before purchasing the certificate?

I have looked for Julia on the 1861 census as Kenedy but haven't seen her as yet.Julia was with William Kenedy (and Robert & Richard)in Chipping Barnet in 1871.I have come across the Kenedy/Kennedy family(2 or 3 branches of this family) in Chipping Barnet on the 1861,1871 and 1851 census so far.I think William Kennedy was perhaps this married sailor from the 1861 census

Name: William Kennedy
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Ordinary Seaman
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Vessels
County/Island: Royal Navy
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Royal Navy
Sub registration district: Royal Navy
ED, institution, or vessel: Nile
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 1

I have noticed the variation in ages of Julia Fitzgerald/Ewins but am open to this as I know that ages etc. are often wrong.

I have always been told that Joseph was born in England.I am beginning to think that perhaps the births of the children were not registered as I am having so much difficulty locating them.This is why I have held off ordering the possible birth certificates for Robert Ewins at the moment.

I will continue this in a new post,
Best wishes,
Paula.

Hello Everyone,

I will include my latest information on my search for Joseph Ewins(junior) born 1863 and his possible siblings.

Joseph Ewins(junior) had a sister named Julia Ewins.I am still awaiting information about if she was older or younger than Joseph & where she was born.I know that she married a Mr Jones and they had a son together called Richard Jones.I think that he was born around 1887.
Richard moved to Perth,Western Australia(I don't know when) and became a tobacco farmer
.Some of my relatives were in contact with Richard and his family but unfortunately those relatives were living in Darwin at the time of Cyclone Tracey and their contact details were lost.I do not know anything else about Julia with regards to her circumstances.

I have looked for her in the Barnet area and found these entries:

1871 census-in the Union Workhouse(it says unmarried but this was just a ditto so it might be wrong)She was a gen. dom. servant listed as an imbecile.

Name: Julia G Jones
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Pauper
Gender: Female
Where born: Barnet, Hertfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Chipping Barnet
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Barnet
Sub registration district: Barnet
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 273
.............................

1881 census-seems to be the same one again,in the Barnet Union Workhouse.Still listed as an unmarried domestic servant,imbecile.
Name: Julia Jones
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Inmate
Gender: Female
Where born: Barnet, Hertfordshire, England

Civil Parish: Chipping Barnet
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England

Street address: "Barnet Union Workhouse"
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Servt Dom

Registration district: Barnet
Sub registration district: Barnet
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
..........................
1901 census-in the Hertfordshire County lunatic Asylum,this time it lists her as married and a lunatic.
Name: Julia Jones
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Patient
Gender: Female
Where born: Barnet, Hertfordshire, England

Civil Parish: St Peter
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: St Albans
Sub registration district: St Albans
ED, institution, or vessel: Hertfordshire County Lunatic Asylum
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 1
..................
I suppose that this could be Julia Ewins(junior) who married a Mr Jones.As I said...I don't know much about her except what I have written.
I have not been able to locate a marriage entry for a Julia Ewins to a Mr Jones so far.

I have found a death entry which sounds like it could be for the Richard Ewins(widow) who was living with Julia in 1901 and present at her deatth in 1902.

Name: Richard Ewins
Estimated Birth Year: ABT 1855
Year of Registration: 1915
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 60
District: Barnet
County: Greater London, Hertfordshire, Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 415 (click to see others on page)

I have also been trying to locate a marriage for this son as he is a widow.I did a search on Free bdm for a marriage that occurred between 1871(when he was a 15 year old) and 1902(he was a widow in 1901).I found this marriage:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1880 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dalley Agnes Hampstead 1a 1099
Edwards Margaret Hampstead 1a 1099
Ewins Richard Hampstead 1a 1099
Sturgess Silvanus William Hampstead 1a 1099

Then I looked for a death for either a Agnes EWINS or a Margaret EWINS and found this:

Deaths Mar 1885 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ewins Margaret 30 Edmonton 3a 232
EWINS Margaret 80 Edmonton 3a 232

I might get the death certificate for Richard Ewins.Will it list him as "the widower of..."?
If it has his wife as Margaret then I might be able to confirm his father's name by getting the marrige certificate.It might also give some new research hints if it says who reported his death.

Thank you so much for your continued encouragement,advice and help.
I really appreciate it.
Best wishes,
Paula.

Hello again,
I just had a look for a death entry for a Julia Jones in Hertfordshire after 1901 and found this:

Deaths Jun 1928 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jones Julia 77 St.Albans 3a 846

Does this sound right?
Thanks for your help,
Best wishes,
Paula.

Paula - your ignorance is forgiven. What's less forgivable is your not thinking to google for "LMA parish records" or somesuch - anyway:
http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/LGNL_Services/Leisure_and_culture/Records_and_archives/

The LDS FHL does have a film for RC records from Lincoln's Fields, but they only seem to have marrs:

Title Parish register printouts of Holborn, London, England, (Roman Catholic Church, Lincoln's Inn Fields), marriages, 1730-1822
Authors Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Genealogical Department (Main Author)

Note Location Film
Parish register printouts of Holborn, London, England, (Roman Catholic Church, Lincoln's Inn Fields), marriages, 1730-1822 FHL BRITISH Film 883883 Item 6

Hi Paula.
I think you really need to order certs. All of us have done this and found them to be wrong. However this is the only way to eliminate them.

I ordered a death cert for someone I thought was an adult. When it arrived it was the baby sister of my 2xgt grandfather who I knew nothing about having been born between census.
The first name was mistranscriibed but on close examination Mary was Mercy. I then found her birth.So this was a bonus.
However other wrong certs proved to be no relation.Just be grateful we are not searching for Smith

Poor Julia Ewins/Jones in an asylum for at least 30 years. I wonder if its possible to get her records

Out of interest I googled Richard Jones tobacco farmer.
It came up with a Richard Jones born 1936 conservationist born Sarina Queensland. Son of George Jones tobacco farmer.

Might be a long shot but did Richard Jones have a brother called George? Did they both go to Australia to farm tobacco?

Paula, I agree with Quinsgran. It's about time you bit the bullet & bought a couple of certs.

You have so much information that looks right that you need to know for sure. Get a couple that will give you the most important information for now.

You'll keep us posted with new information, won't you? This has been such an interesting journey!

Ozi.

Re the death certificiate for Robert, got this from googling:

From 1837 a death had to be registered within 8 days; in 1875 this was reduced to 5 days. From 1866 onwards, death indexes give the age of the deceased at death

So unfortunately, the index doesn't give his age, but hopefully the certificate will.

I agree that you need some more certificates now :)

Hello Everyone,

Thank you all so much for your continued interest and help! It is much appreciated.

mgnv-
Thank you for the information on the Roman Catholic Church at Lincoln's Inn Fields.

Qinsgran,Ozibird and Selena-
Thank you all for your ongoing interest and help.I will definately be ordering a few more certificates this week-I have been waiting to get in touch with a few overseas relatives(who have been out of contact with the Easter break) to make sure that we don't purchase the same certificates!
I have also been trying to decide which will be the most useful ones to get first.Hopefully they will all fit into the puzzle anyway!

I agree that it is very sad that Julia Jones seems to have been institutionalised for such a long time.I will try and find out more about her.

I don't know if Richard Jones had any siblings.I was told that he moved to Perth in Western Australia and became a tobacco farmer.I am hoping to hear from my Mother's cousin(she is unavailable at the moment due to illness)as she actually met Richard Jones and may have more information about him and his family.I was sent some photos of Richard Jones and also have photos of his grandson with his wife and twin daughters.

Selena-thank you also for the information about the inclusion of ages at death,it is good to know.

Thank you all so much for your help-I will keep the information coming as I find it out!

Best wishes,
Paula.

Hi Paula

You might find this thread interesting/helpful:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1132516

There is mention of the Sardinian Chapel and also a Roman Catholic Cemetery at Kensal Green with a very helpful man whom you can 'phone and ask to do look ups!

Julie

Hello Everyone,

Julie...Hi!
Thanks for pointing me in the direction of the post that mentions the Sardinian Chapel and the Roman Catholic Cemetery at Kensal Green.
I will bookmark it and read through it.
I have had a very quick look and it sounds very interesting.
Thank you so much for letting me know about this!
Best wishes,
Paula.

Hello everyone,

Just a quick update with a little bit of information I found on an old letter from my grandfather.

In 1990 he wrote me a letter outlining all that he knew/could remember(he was in his 90's then) about various family members.I periodically go back to it in case I have overlooked something.
He wrote that he thought that Joseph Ewins(b. 1863) mother was said to have been a Fitzgerald......this is Julia Fitzgerald.
He wrote that he believed her parents were Irish but probably came to England during the Irish potato famine.I imagine that they probably would have ended up in an area like St. Giles/Finsbury etc. with many other Irish families trying to survive.
He said Joseph was from Essex.

That's all for now,
best wishes,
Paula.

Hi Everyone,

I have just been thinking and wondered if anyone knows how I would go about finding a grave.

I mentioned in an earlier post that my second cousin in Belfast got the death certificate for the Julia Ewins who died in Barnet in 1902.He is going to send me a copy which I do not have yet.

He told me that it says she died at Austens Yard,Barnet and was aged 64.The person present at death was R.Ewins(most likely her son,Richard,who was with her on the 1901 census at the same address).She was the widow of Robert Ewins,master basketmaker.

I was wondering how to find this grave as my Aunt(who lives in Kent) has mentioned that she would like to visit it.Perhaps Julia's gravestone will have some information.

Thank you (in advance) for any suggestions or ideas!
Your help is greatly appreciated.
Best wishes,
Paula.

Have a look at these websites, might be helpful

http://www.locallife.co.uk/Barnet/cemeteries3.asp

http://www.ihertfordshire.co.uk/local/cemeteries-and-crematoria/Barnet/

http://www.barnet.gov.uk/cemeteries.pdf

Or try emailing Barnet council Archives section

Address
North London Business Park (NLBP)
Oakleigh Road South
London
N11 1NP
Phone Number
020 8359 2000

Email
[email protected]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you Selena for your help!
I will have a look at the sites you have suggested.
Best wishes,
Paula.

Hello Everyone,

I am just adding my latest information for everyone to have a look at!

Have just received the death certificate for Richard Ewins:

Name: Richard Ewins
Estimated Birth Year: ABT 1855
Year of Registration: 1915
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 60
District: Barnet
County: Greater London, Hertfordshire, Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 415 (click to see others on page)

The information is as follows:
Died 21st May 1915 Workhouse Infirmary Barnet.U.D.
Name: Richard Ewins Male Age:60 years
85 Warwick Cottages,East Barnet.U.D. General Labourer
Cause of death: Malignant growth of prostate,haematuria,exhaustion
Certified by: D.H.Stewart M.D.
Informant: H.M.Stratford,Matron,Union Workhouse,Barnet
When Registered:11th June 1915

I was hoping some family may have been present......

I also e-mailed The Lincoln's Inn Parish to see if I could locate their Baptismal Records for 1863 to search for Joseph Ewins.They said they were located at the Diocesan Archives in London.

I e-mailed them and received this reply:
I had a quick look at the relevant volume of baptismal records for the old Sardinian Chapel, which covers the years 1856 to 1864. There is no mention of an Ewins between 21 December 1863 and 24 August 1864, when that particular volume ends. Children were normally baptised within a few months of birth, though it was sometimes delayed.

Search fees are normally £8.50 per half hour of research time, if you want an extended search - though it may be fruitless.

Sorry not to be of more help

Fr Nicholas Schofield

Westminster Diocesan Archives

It was very good of them to look for me.

I also e-mailed Barnet Council Archive section to try and locate where Julia Ewins may be buried.They passed my e-mail on to Barnet Local Studies and Archives section who sent this reply:
Thank-you for your enquiry which was passed on to us at Barnet Local Studies and Archives Centre.The most likely churches for the burial would be St Giles, South Mimms, (the original mother church for the parish of South Mimms) and St Albans Church, Barnet which took burials for the mother church from 1900 onwards. Because the death was in 1902, I checked our microfiche of monumental inscriptions for the church yard of St Albans Church. I didn't find the name Julia Ewins there. It may be that some burials continued at St Giles for a few years. Unfortunately, we don't have information about the churchyard at St Giles because it was some three miles away - and is in Hertfordshire. Hertfordshire Records Office does have the records there, I understand, under a reference: DP/132. (Hertfordshire Records Office: www.hertsdirect.org/hals )

Coincidentally - I did find three people by the name of Ewins buried in the St Albans churchyard in the 1920s.

Thank You
Ann Taylor
Local Studies Assistant
Barnet Local Studies & Archives
80 Daws La. NW7 4SL
Tel: 0208 359 3960
www.barnet.gov.uk/archives

This is what I have been doing whilst I was waiting for the death certificate of Richard Ewins to arrive!

Thank you all so much for your continued interest and help!
Best wishes,
Paula.

Hi Everyone,

I just got another e-mail from Barnet Local Studies and Archives correcting an error in the first e-mail.
Here it is:
I'm glad you've found that useful. However, a colleague has pointed out to me an error in my email to you. The Church in Barnet which started taking burials from 1900 onwards is called Christ Church, which is on St Albans Road, Barnet - it is not called St. Albans Church. Apologies for misleading you.

Regards
Ann Taylor
Barnet Local Studies

Thanks for your interest,
Best wishes,
Paula.

Hi Everyone,

Just posting my latest information.

My Aunt contacted St Mary's Roman Catholic Cemetery in Kensal Green to check if they have burials for Julia Ewins,Robert Ewins or Joseph Ewins(the harness maker-just in case).They are not buried there.

Coincidentally...Joseph Ewins(junior) daughter,Agnes,and her husband,Joseph McConnell,are buried there.They are my maternal grandparents.

I discovered a Cemetery in Barnet called Bells Hill Cemetery.This is apparently the burial place of the priest who ran the boarding school that Joseph Ewins(junior) attended(Father George Bampfield).
I thought that if he was buried there then maybe Julia Ewins could be there.My Aunt has tried to phone to find out but has not got through so far.

I have spent a bit of time going through census pages trying to pinpoint the location of Myrtle Cottage in Barnet where Julia was living in 1883(on Joseph junior's Army papers).

On the 1861 census-Hertfordshire-Chipping Barnet-District 2f-page 54 there is Station Road,New Barnet then Myrtle Cottages then Lester Street(I think this is Leicester Street) followed by Station Road,New Barnet.

On the 1871 census-Middlesex(I noted change of County)-Chipping Barnet-District 2-page 35 there is Underhill,Station Road,Park Villas,Myrtle Villas etc.(Julia was on page 28 and the Bunyon family who she was with in 1881 are also very close -either the same page or next page)

I have also ordered the marriage certificate of Richard Ewins-the widowed son who was living with Julia in 1901.This should give me the name of his father which I do not know.

Thank you all for your help and interest.
Best wishes,
Paula.

You have been busy, Paula.

Love to hear how you're progressing. Thanks for keeping us informed.

Ozi.

Hi Everyone,

Thank you all for your continuing help,advice and encouragement.It is much appreciated.

I still haven't found out if Julia Ewins is buried in the Bells Hill Cemetery in Barnet-I will have to ask my Aunt if she has been able to contact them.

You may remember that I had also been trying to locate a marriage for Richard Ewins(Julia's son) as he is a widow.I did a search on Free bdm for a marriage that occurred between 1871(when he was a 15 year old) and 1902(he was a widow in 1901).I found this marriage:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1880 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dalley Agnes Hampstead 1a 1099
Edwards Margaret Hampstead 1a 1099
Ewins Richard Hampstead 1a 1099
Sturgess Silvanus William Hampstead 1a 1099

Then I looked for a death for either a Agnes EWINS or a Margaret EWINS and found this:

Deaths Mar 1885 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ewins Margaret 30 Edmonton 3a 232
EWINS Margaret 80 Edmonton 3a 232

I recently ordered the marriage certificate for Richard Ewins-it has arrived.
Here is the information:

1880 Marriage solemnized at Saint Mary's Chapel in the district of Hampstead in the County of Middlesex.
Date: 2nd April 1880
Groom: Richard Ewins 26 years labourer 2 Brewhouse Lane,Hampstead Father:Robert Ewins(deceased) Basketmaker
Bride: Margaret Edwards 26 years 2 Brewhouse Lane,Hampstead
Father: John Edwards(deceased) Carpenter
Married in Saint Mary's Chapel according to the rights and ceremonies of the Roman Catholic Church by certificate by me,?A.D.Purcell R.C.Priest.
Signed by bride and groom.Witnesses: Anne Brett,Ann Devon.William P?
Registrar.

This seems to confirm that Richard is the son of Julia Ewins(nee Fitzgerald) and Robert Ewins-this was only speculation before.

I cannot locate them on the 1881 census so far.

Any input is greatly appreciated!
Best wishes,
Paula.

Hello Everyone,
Just a quick information update!

I mentioned on a previous post that I was trying to find the grave of Julia Ewins:
"I discovered a Cemetery in Barnet called Bells Hill Cemetery.This is apparently the burial place of the priest who ran the boarding school that Joseph Ewins(junior) attended(Father George Bampfield).
I thought that if he was buried there then maybe Julia Ewins could be there.My Aunt has tried to phone to find out but has not got through so far."

I received an e-mail from her the other day that says:

"At last I got through to Bells Cemetary and a very nice lady called Lynn Baker found a Julia Ewins buried there 14 November 1902. She was 64 years of age No one else was buried in the grave which is unusual. The cemetery reference is B 1 64."

My Aunt is presently in Belfast so I will have to wait until she gets back to find out about this.
I know that Julia Ewins died in the December quarter of 1902(I will need to check the date as I do not have the certificate-my second cousin in Belfast does) aged 64.It sounds very hopeful.
How wonderful if there is a headstone containing information!!!

Thank you all for your help and continued interest,
Paula.