Genealogy Chat

Could this be a brother - its in the right area and I think he appears on a later census with mum Julia,

Births Dec 1852
Ewins Robert St Giles 1b 336

Births Dec 1855
Ewins Robert St Giles 1b 343

Hello Everyone,

Thanks so much for offering your assistance-I am very grateful for your help and opinions!

Ozibird...I also have been searching the enumeration descriptions to try and locate the correct house in Parker Street.

On the 1851 census the family was at 51 Parker Street.This was located in South Giles South -District 12.

I cannot locate 51 Parker Street on the 1861 census.I went right through South Giles-District 12.Although 51 Parker Street is not listed a lot of the neighbouring places(from the 1851 census) seem to be there so I think it is the right area.

On the 1851 census I also noticed a family living at no. 44 Parker Street called Ewins.They are:
William EWINS head marr. age 34 basketmaker b.Middlesex St. Giles
Charlotte EWINS wife marr. age 27 coach lace maker b. Devon.
They may have been relatives(same surname and profession as Robert).

After 44 Parker Street the numbers were:45,46,47,48,49,50,51(where Julia and Robert were living)then 53.
I tried to see these addresses again on the 1861 census but they are not there.Parker Street only goes until number 43!They are not on District 11 either.

Selena-I haven't heard that the family was abroad....but at this stage anything is possible... ha ha!
Seriously-I think that Joseph Ewins(junior) who was born in 1863 and joined the Army was probably the first one to venture overseas.

I suspect that the birth of Robert Ewins in Dec 1852 could be Julia's son and I was also looking into that.i also came up with this:
I have been searching today for any solid information on Richard or Robert Ewins.
Here is a quick recap......

On the 1901 British Census we have:

Address: 5 Austens Yard South Mimms

Julia EWINS Head age 73(b. 1828) widow born Limerick
Richard EWINS son age 52(b. 1849) widow born Bloomsbury,London
.................................................................

On the 1871 British Census we have:

Address: Underhill Chipping Barnet

William KENEDY Head age 32(b. 1839) ag lab born Middlesex,Hadley
Julia KENEDY wife age 33(b. 1838) flower maker born Middlesex,London
Richard EWINGS son age 15(b. 1856) born Middlesex,London
Robert EWINGS son age 12(b. 1859) born Middlesex,London

(I don't think they were married.....well not to each other anyway!)
.................................................................

There is a marriage record from March 1849
Between
Julia FITZGERALD and Robert EWINS
at ST GILES
(volume 1 page 81)
.....................................................................

On the 1851 British Census we have:

Address: 51 Parker St,Finsbury(St Giles)

Robert EWENS Head age 27(could be 37)(b. 1824 or ?1814) basketmaker born London
Julia EWENS wife age 23 born Ireland
Mary EWENS daughter age 2 born London
.......................................................................
So we are looking for:

Richard EWINS/EWENS/EWINGS born in 1856 or 1849 in Bloomsbury or London Middlesex.

Robert EWINS/EWENS (the husband) born in 1824 or possibly 1814(age hard to read) in London who is a basketmaker.

Robert EWINGS (the son) born 1859 in Middlesex,London.

So if Julia Fitzgerald did marry Robert Ewins the basketmaker(rather than Joseph Ewins the harnessmaker)it appears that some of their children could be:

Joseph Ewins(we know he exists!)
Julia Ewins(who married Mr Jones and had a son,Richard Jones)
Mary Ewins(who may have died)
Robert Ewins
Richard Ewins
.................................................................................
I have found a possible death entry for Richard Ewins(who was on Julia's death certificate)

Name: Richard Ewins
Estimated Birth Year: ABT 1855
Year of Registration: 1915
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 60
District: Barnet
County: Greater London, Hertfordshire, Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 415 (click to see others on page)


.......................................................................................
I have found 2 possible births for Robert Ewins(the son) however there is also a death entry so it is possible that one of them died.
Here they are:


The first possible birth...
Name: Robert Ewins
Year of Registration: 1852
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: St Giles
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: 336 (click to see others on page)

The second possible birth....
Name: Robert Ewins
Year of Registration: 1855
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: St Giles
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: 343 (click to see others on page)

I will continue this in my next post.
Paula.

Hello again,
Here is a continuation of the last post as I ran out of space!
I will include both births again and the death entry.

I have found 2 possible births for Robert Ewins(the son) however there is also a death entry so it is possible that one of them died.
Here they are:


The first possible birth...
Name: Robert Ewins
Year of Registration: 1852
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: St Giles
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: 336 (click to see others on page)

The second possible birth....
Name: Robert Ewins
Year of Registration: 1855
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: St Giles
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: 343 (click to see others on page)



Either of those could be this death....
Name: Robert Ewins
Year of Registration: 1856
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: St Giles
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: (click to see others on page)


They have left off the page number but I had a look and think it says Volume 1b page 225.

Does this sound like we are on the right track?

Thank you so much for your help.If anyone has any thoughts or opinions please feel free to contribute as it can only help.

Thank you all!
Best wishes,
Paula.

Hello Everyone,
Just a quick update.I still have not been able to locate the family on the 1861 census......
Any thoughts would be most welcome!
Thanks so much,
Paula.

Hi Everyone,

I have just ordered my first certificate online!How exciting!!

I decided to order the marriage certificate of Julia Fitzgerald and Robert Ewins(1849 St Giles) to see if it helps sort out any details.
Now I just have to sit tight and wait for it to arrive.Does anyone know how long they take to come by standard post from the GRO in England to Sydney Australia?
Thanks,
Paula.

Paula.
Im in NZ and have sent for a lot of certs. Time to arrive depends on how busy they are at the reg office.
Time for arriving in Aus from departure 5-10 days
Gro usually says when the cert will be sent

Just to say the 1851 census has problems with some areas missing.
If you scroll down it tells you about the census and known problem areas

Paula, you've been very thorough in your search & I think you have to come to terms with the fact you may never find them in 1861. Somewhere along the track you might be lucky enough to come across them.

Good luck with your cert. It IS exciting, isn't it?

As you've probably guessed I'm in Oz & my certs usually take 4 working days extra to the stated GRO delivery time.

Ozi.

Wonder if this is Julia's son on the 1881

Richard EWENS Head M Male 29 London, Middlesex, England Boot & Shoe Maker
Elizabeth EWENS Wife M Female 28 St George, Gloucester, England Cotton Spinner
Elizabeth EWENS Daur U Female 9 St George, Gloucester, England Scholar
Matilda EWENS Daur U Female 8 St George, Gloucester, England Scholar
Lydia M. EWENS Daur U Female 5 St George, Gloucester, England Scholar

Mary A. EWENS Daur U Female 4 St George, Gloucester, England Scholar
Richard EWENS Son U Male 3 St George, Gloucester, England Scholar
Robert EWENS Son U Male 1 St George, Gloucester, England
Florence EWENS Daur U Female 2 m St George, Gloucester, England

Marriages Sep 1870
EWINS Richard Bristol 6a 81
HICKS Elizabeth Bristol 6a 81

Hi Everyone !!

Thanks once again to all of you wonderful people...all around the world!..who have taken the time to read this long post.Your kindness and help has been invaluable to me and very much appreciated.

Quinsgran..Hi Neighbour!..just across the ocean!

Thanks for the info on the timeframe for my certificates,good to hear.
I did suspect that some of the pages that I need in the 1861 census may be missing...around 51 Parker Street,St Giles/Finsbury area.
I have only just discovered that 51 Parker Street is on the 1871 census so it should have been on the 1861 census.(I found that because I was checking to see if the Ewens who were at 44 Parker Street were still there from 10 years earlier-they were.
Julia and Robert Ewins were no longer at 51 Parker Street in 1871.There is however a Fitzgerald...this was Julia's maiden name...possibly related?I will add this to my list!

Ozibird..Hi to an even closer neigbour!!..I'm in Sydney!

Thanks so much for your encouragement...as a beginner I often wonder if I have "covered all the bases" in my searches.I will keep looking for them as 1861 is a crucial year in my search.To find any of the family would help a lot!
I have decided to put the certificate I have ordered out of my mind so that when it arrives I get a lovely suprise!!
(that is probably my Irish blood at work Ha Ha)

Selena..Hi!!

Thanks for your continued help.
I had a bit of a look at the Richard Ewens that you found on the 1881 census.Someone else has a family tree with his details on it and has the census records linked to that.I was able to have a look at those and don't think that he is Julia's son.
Julia's son Richard(a widow)was living with her in 1901 and this one was still in Gloucestershire with his wife.

Thank you all for your interest and help.
Best wishes,
Paula.

Hi Everyone,
The marriage certificate arrived yesterday!

Here are the details:

1849 Marriage solemnized in the Sardinian Chapel in the District of St Giles in the Fields & St George Bloomsbury in the County of Middlesex.

Date of marriage:26th February 1849

Groom details: Robert EWINS age 24 bachelor basketmaker
residence: 17 Lincoln Court
father: Robert Ewins also a basketmaker

Bride details: Julia FITZGERALD age 22 spinster
residence: also 17 Lincoln Court
father: John Fitzgerald brazier

It says the church is a Roman Catholic Church.
Married by John Kyne.

Witnesses: Edward.J.Cotter
Mary Canton
Under this it says William Musson Newbery Registrar

Now I just need to see if this information fits in........anyone willing to add their thoughts?

Thank you all so much for your efforts!
Paula.

nudge

Hi Everyone,

Thank you all for following this post-I know it is getting very long!!

I have been trying to research the new details that were revealed with the marriage certificate but have not got very far as yet.

I know that the Sardinian Chapel was a Roman Catholic church which is now known as the Church of St Anselm and St Cecilia.They were both living at 17 Lincoln Court which I have found is in South St Giles(on the 1851-district 5a & 5b- and 1861-district 5- census).Robert Ewins had a father also named Robert Ewins who was also a basket maker.I have not found him on a census yet.
I have looked for the witnesses and found a Mary Canton(on the 1851 census) living nearby at 14 Lincoln Court(with her husband Malachi Canton).By 1861 Malachi and Mary Canton are in the St George and Bloomsbury United Parish Workhouse.

Please let me know if you think that the information that I have uncovered so far appears to be "the right people".
My aunt is still worried that on Joseph Ewins(junior) marriage certificate it says his father is Joseph Ewins who was a harness maker.
I will list my reasons for thinking that I am on the right track and please agree or disagree.I would be very grateful for the opinions!!

WHAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR:

We needed to find a Julia Fitzgerald who married a Ewins who had a son born in Bloomsbury.
We know that Julia Ewins was probably widowed and living in Barnet in 1883.
We have been told that Joseph Ewins(junior) attended boarding school.
It is likely that Julia Ewins died in Barnet.
My second cousin was told that Julia Ewins sold flowers.

WHAT WE HAVE FOUND:

We have found a Julia Fitzgerald who married a Ewins(in a catholic church) in an area very close to Bloomsbury.
We have found a Julia Ewins who is a widow living in Barnet.
We have found a catholic boarding school in Barnet with a Joseph Ewins attending.
We have found a Julia Ewins who died in Barnet in 1902.This Julia Ewins had a son called Richard Ewins living with her when she died.
The year before-in 1901-there was a Julia Ewins living at the same address with her son Richard Ewins who was born in Bloomsbury.
There was also a Julia(listed as Kenedy but I am sure that was not her married name as there is no record of marriage)in Barnet in 1871 (who was a flower maker) living with 2 boys(probably her sons) called Robert Ewings and Richard Ewings.

There seem to be too many things that seem to be a match to dismiss a connection.

Thank you all so much for your time and efforts!!!
You are all wonderful.
Best wishes,
Paula.

Hello Everyone,

I have not been on the computer for a few days so I have no new information.
I am not really sure where to search next....any suggestions?
If anyone has any thoughts please feel free to add them....I think that I have become too familiar with all of this and may be missing something.

Thanks so much for any suggestions!!
Paula.

Tidying up some old details: -
you can search for Richard Jones in WA - there seem some possible hits at:
http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/GenResearch.html

on the attestation papers I've seen, the order of preference for next of kin seems to be: wife, mother, father, sibling, and I've rarely seen a case of someone jumping up the queue. I must admit there are several mother/father pairs on the CWGC site, and I have seen a Canadian soldier list his brother in Canada ahead of his parents in the UK, but that's about it, so I wouldn't attach any significance, either one way or the other, to the mother alone being named as NOK.

Paula, can you update us on what the problem is? I don't want to go back & read all the messages.

I think it is to do with Julia's husband - "My aunt is still worried that on Joseph Ewins(junior) marriage certificate it says his father is Joseph Ewins who was a harness maker."

Is it Joseph Ewins jnr's father? You have one bloke & your aunt is sure it's not him. Am I right?

Have you found Joseph c1863 birth cert yet?

Ozi.

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for persisting with this!

mgnv.........Hi, thanks for letting me know about NOK.I wasn't aware of that.
Thank you for the information on tracing Richard Jones as I wasn't sure where to start with that.

Ozibird....Hello again,sorry for my vagueness.I was having a "I don't know where to go next" moment.

You are correct...I have not been able to find a birth certificate for Joseph Ewins(junior) who was born in 1863.His Army papers from 1883 said he was born in Bloomsbury.

The problem also is that on Joseph(juniors) marriage certificate it says his father is Joseph Ewins(harness maker) but the only marriage we have found is Julia Fitzgerald marrying Robert Ewins(basket maker) in St Giles in 1849.
My aunt is still trying to locate a Joseph Ewins(senior) who is a harness maker who married Julia Fitzgerald.
This 1849 marriage seems to tie in because......
WHAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR:

We needed to find a Julia Fitzgerald who married a Ewins who had a son born in Bloomsbury.
We know that Julia Ewins was probably widowed and living in Barnet in 1883.
We have been told that Joseph Ewins(junior) attended boarding school.
It is likely that Julia Ewins died in Barnet.
My second cousin was told that Julia Ewins sold flowers.

WHAT WE HAVE FOUND:

We have found a Julia Fitzgerald who married a Ewins(in a catholic church) in an area very close to Bloomsbury.
We have found a Julia Ewins who is a widow living in Barnet.
We have found a catholic boarding school in Barnet with a Joseph Ewins attending.
We have found a Julia Ewins who died in Barnet in 1902.This Julia Ewins had a son called Richard Ewins living with her when she died.
The year before-in 1901-there was a Julia Ewins living at the same address with her son Richard Ewins who was born in Bloomsbury.
There was also a Julia(listed as Kenedy but I am sure that was not her married name as there is no record of marriage)in Barnet in 1871 (who was a flower maker) living with 2 boys(probably her sons) called Robert Ewings and Richard Ewings.

There seem to be too many things that seem to be a match to dismiss a connection.

Do you think that I am pursuing the right family?
Any thoughts.......
Thanks so much,
Paula.

Hi Everyone,

I was wondering if someone could let me know where to find the IGI Batch number so that I can search the births/baptism records for the Sardinian Chapel at Holborn.I have looked but just can't seem to find it.

I was hoping to see if Joseph Ewins (born 1863) is listed as the couple that I believe are his parents(Julia Fitzgerald & Robert Ewins) were married there in 1849.

Thank you so much for your help!
Best wishes,
Paula.

I've just done a place search for Holborn in the LDS FHL library catalog, and there's no records listed there for the Sardinian Chapel (or at least not by that name), so I doubt the LDS have extracted anything from there.
Maybe try the LMA.

Is te Sardinian Chapel Catholic??

If so, I believe that you find very few Catholic records on familysearch (and therefore on the Hugh Wallis IGI site) because the Catholics refused to give the Mormons the right to extract information ffrom Catholic records


something to do with possible re-baptisms into the Mormon church



sylvia

Hi Paula, just a couple of thoughts on this.

Have you ordered Robert's death cert from 1856 to see who the informant was? Just to check that it is the right man, hopefully Julia would be the informant. Also, would this mean that Robert is not actually Joseph's father as he was born 1863?

Have you looked for Julia on the 1861 as Kennedy?

Or could Julia have moved back in with mum on the 1861 as Julia was widowed and might be entered as Fitzgerald by mistake?

Have you noticed how her age changes?

Death in 1902 age 64 so born 1838
73 on the 1901 making her born 1828
49 in 1891 born 1842
41 on 1881 making her born 1840
33 on the 1871, so born 1838
23 on the 1851, making her born 1828
22 on marriage in 1849 to Robert, so born 1827

Maybe Joseph (c1863) and Richard (c1859) were born in Ireland and mum Julie was in Ireland around 1861 which is why you can't find her.

Just found this by googling civil registration in Ireland:

" Compulsory civil registration of non-Roman Catholic marriages began on April 1st, 1845. The registration of births, deaths and all marriages commenced on January 1st, 1864.

So working sideways, have you thought about ordering the birth cert for Robert born St Giles?

Sorry for the long message, have just been thinking aloud really.


Fingers crossed for something more definate soon,