Genealogy Chat

I have been having a dig around and I am more confused than ever.

George remembered the Dachtler and Hurst names. If he also remembers the Grayer name change that seems to mean that one of the families is not his
:-((

I'll phone him tomorrow and he will have to phone his brothers and see what they can recall. Otherwise I can foresee me going along the wrong path again!

I'll let you know what he says.

Sue

Rose

I am still looking for Henry Graham's death between 1869 and 1971 when his wife states she is already widowed.

Sorry the Greyer info is great and I'll speak with George tomorrow. I am trying to find Henry's death so I can tie up that part of the family before his widow remarries Mr Hurst.

Sue

Thank you Rose,

I spoke with aged BIL this morning to try and jog his memory (I need a big stick!).

I'll look at this info later,

I really appreciate your help.

Sue x

OK,

This is fish curer George:


Births Dec 1869
GRAYER George James St. George S. 1d 148


1881

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
George GREYER Head M Male 31 London St Georges, London, Middlesex, England Fish Curer
Esther GREYER Wife M Female 30 London Whitechapel, London, Middlesex, England
George GREYER Son Male 11 London St Georges, London, Middlesex, England Scholar
Charles GREYER Son Male 5 London St Georges, London, Middlesex, England Scholar

Source Information:
Dwelling 20 Foxes Bldgs
Census Place Southwark St George Martyr, Surrey, England

RG11
Piece / Folio 0521 / 130
Page Number 34


1891 England Census
about George Graen
Name: George Graen
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Esther
Gender: Male
Where born: Newington, London, England
Civil Parish: St George The Martyr
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Magdalene
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub registration district: Kent Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 8

Rose

Thanks Rose,

I'll need to digest that. I'll check back with you later today :-))

Thank you so much.

Sue

So this is the George you are after?

1901 England Census
about George J Graham
Name: George J Graham
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth A
Gender: Male
Where born: Bermondsey, London, England
Civil Parish: Mile End Old Town
Ecclesiastical parish: St Dunstan Stepney
Town: Mile End Old Town
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Mile End Old Town
Sub registration district: Mile End, Old Town, Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 139
Household Members: Name Age
Edward W Graham 1
Elizabeth A Graham 28
George J Graham 31
George J Graham 3
Mary A Graham 4

because Elizabeth's George is still with her in 1901:

1901 England Census
about Elizabeth Graham
Name: Elizabeth Graham
Age: 53
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Female
Where born: Bermondsey, London, England
Civil Parish: Deptford St Paul
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints Hatcham
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Greenwich
Sub registration district: Deptford Central
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 605
Household Members: Name Age
Alice Datchler 29
Catherine Datchler 38
Emma Datchler 42
Harry Datchler 30
James Datchler 24
Mary Datchler 52
Elizabeth Graham 53
George Graham 30 Wheelwright.

Rose

Rose

*bangs head against wall*

Well spotted, I am seriously going to weep in a minute. I am trying to get the census records up on Ancestry but they won't load at the moment. To see where i have gone wrong.

I bought the marriage cert for BIL's parents and his grandfather is just named on there as George Graham so no clue to middle name.

I have got in such a muddle with this. I'm sorry. I have to see why I have two different middle names!

The dreaded Lightfoots seem easy compared to the Grahams :-(((

If anyone can get ancestry up to check the middle name I would really appreciate it

*goes into corner with pointy hat with big D on the front*

Sue

Sue,

At the very beginning you mention George James Graham. The one posted above is George John Graham. Just want to make sure we've got the correct one.

Rose

Von,

Sorry I don't know. Aged BIL's grandfather was a fish curer. That was George Graham b. 1870. My BIL thinks his gt grandfather (the Henry Graham whose death I am looking for) worked on the docks.

BIL was also under the impression that at some point the family was called Graer. Heaven alone knows if that is right :-((

He can't afford certs and I can't afford to buy him any cos I buy enough of my own.

I just really need to tie up this loose end with the death before I am happy. I hope you know what I mean!

Thanks

Sue

No luck, Sue. Hope you find him eventually.

Thanks Ozbird I have these. You are not the only one confused:-((

I need to find the possible death record of Henry Graham.

Sue

Sorry, I'm getting confused here. I'll start again.

Ozi.

Hi Jim,

Sorry have been occupied elsewhere. Thanks for reply. This is the tree I am doing for aged BIL who has some recollections and they have proved right so far. (Usually after I have found something out)..lol

The family were from Islington. The Dachtler name rings a bell with him. He mentioned the Hursts as being the step family BEFORE I found that.

Sorry this is disjointed. So what I am looking for is the death. Logically between 1869 (allowing for the conception of the youngest) and 1871 when she states she is widowed.

I hope I have this right :-(((

Sue

These are all the same Henry,I think.So not yours.
How do you know that your Henry was born in Islington?
1881
Henry Graham Ann S. abt 1846 Barnsbury Head St Mary Islington, London
1871
Henry Graham Ann abt 1846 Islington, Middlesex, England Head Islington, London
1861
Henry Graham Joseph abt 1846 London, Middlesex, England Son Islington, Middlesex
1851
Henry Graham John,Charlotte abt 1846 Islington, Middlesex, England Son Islington, Middlesex

Rose,

If I have that will be a relief! Thanks for replying I'll have another look today when my brain unscrambles. I went looking 'sideways' cos I just could not find a death cert for him anywhere!

Sue

I think you have the wrong Henry.

The one born in Islington is Henry William and he married Ann Susannah Barnes:

Births Mar 1846
Graham Henry William Islington 3 267

Marriages Dec 1865
Barnes Ann Susannah Islington 1b 387
Graham Henry William Islington 1b 387

What are the details on the marriage cert for yours?

Rose

Sue,

Are you really sure this is the same Henry Graham? There are a lot of them.

Rose

I have Henry Graham b 1846 in Islington.

married Elizabeth Henrietta Dachtler in 1866

youngest child George James Graham b 1870.

In the 1871 census Elizabeth had moved in with her father taking her two children condition widow. for ref:

1871 England Census
about Elizth Henretta Graham
Name: Elizth Henretta Graham
[Elizth Henretta Dachtler]
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Geo Fredk
Mother's Name: Elizth Frances
Gender: Female
Where born: Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Rotherhithe
Ecclesiastical parish: Rotherhithe Christchurch
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub registration district: Rotherhithe
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 73
Household Members: Name Age
Catherine Nancy Dachtler 7
Elizth Frances Dachtler 40
Emma Dachtler 13
Fredk Dachtler 5
Geo Fredk Dachtler 43
Geo Fredk Dachtler 15
Henry Jas Dachtler 5 months
Richard Dachtler 11
Elizth Henretta Graham 23
Geo John Graham 1
Jas Burnard Graham 4

Can anyone please locate a likely death record for Henry Graham.

ANOTHER POSSIBILITY - GULP

1861 England Census
about Henry Graham
Name: Henry Graham
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Joseph
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Islington
Ecclesiastical parish: Chapel of Ease
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address: 11 Arthur Terrace

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Islington
Sub registration district: Islington East
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 217
Household Members: Name Age
Charlotte Graham 45
Eliza Graham 18
Henry Graham 15
James Graham 17 (Painter)
Joseph Graham 42 ((Painter)

Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 138; Folio: 132; Page: 39; GSU roll: 542580.

THEN

1871 England Census
about Henry Graham
Name: Henry Graham
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Islington, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Islington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Barnabas
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 16 Arthur Street

Occupation: Painter

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Islington
Sub registration district: Islington East
ED, institution, or vessel: 64a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 154
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Graham 24
Henry Graham 25
Sarah A Graham 5 months

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 303; Folio: 52; Page: 27; GSU roll: 818888.


SO AND YES I AM SHOUTING: HE EITHER HAD TWO FAMILIES ON THE GO OR I HAVE GONE COMPLETELY MAD.

SAME ADDRESSES in 61 and 71 for HENRY, SAME FAMILY OCCUPATION, TWO DIFFERENT WIVES AND A DAUGHTER BY ANN, TWO SONS BY ELIZABETH (WHOM I ASSUME HE ABANDONED - SHE LATER MARRIED A HURST!)

heeeeellllp please!

Thanks

Sue

Edit: sorry it's late I'll check back tomorrow.