Genealogy Chat

Thta looks good Elizabeth.

Have to say Ind can also be a delicate way of saying on parish relief.

From the Gloucestershire Marriage Index

Marriage-20 November 1831 at Cheltenham
Henry Ward BOWER
Esther WILSON

The Index is from 1800-1837 .
There is not a Bower/Fennell marriage so it may have taken place after 1837.

The way to find Esther's maiden surname is to purchase the birth cert whose details I posted above........

Specify that the mother must be named Esther/Hester when ordering.....if it is not the correct birth, you will not receive the cert

You can't speculate that he was the son of John and Esther, as the 1841 census does not.........as already mentioned.....record relationships. The odds are that he WAS their son, in view of his age.......but never, ever take anything for granted when doing your family history. It's liable to jump up and bite you, if you do that!

You can't 'deduce' who married whom; you have to find proof.........

Happy hunting!

In the census, Ind in the occupation column means she is of independent means, that is she has money or an annuity so does not need to work. My guess is that Jane Wilson is the mother of H/Ester.
Have you tried parish records for the bapt of the children or even parents or their marriages?
Huia.

Many thanks for people's inputs on this very tricky one.

if we look at the 1841 census, it seems that JAne Wilson is a n independent person - possibly a lodger. John Wilson is in fact John Fennell born 1840 and son of John and Esther.

I'm not sure that The marriage Heidi identified in 1832 can be right otherwise Ann born c 1832 and Lucy C 1834 would have been Fennells and not appear in the latser scensuses as Bowers (and also remember Lucy puts her name as Lucy Bowers as her anem in the m,marriage of 1856 and her father as Henry Bowers Currier.

I seem that Esther unknown from Bisley Glos c 1811 would have married Henry Bowers sometime 1829-1832 Then either divorced or became widowed 1834-1843 Then married John Fennell sometime between 1834-1840. Then John Fennell died 1851-1861 Then Lucy Bowers married John Nottingham 1856 saying that her father was Henry Bowers.

Would be great to deduce what Esther's maiden name was, find either of her marraifges to John Fennell or John Bowers (presuming they were actually married which seems likley as both Lucy and Ann took his name.

John junior's birth?

Births Sep 1840 (>99%)
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Fennell John Cheltenham 11 199



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Sorry, see this has already been posted.

Could Jane Wilson be Esther's mother? Is she the right sort of age?

Thnks for this Eric So is that The Birth of John 10months?

So I guess he was the childm of Esther and John senior and the girls were Bowers from Esther's first mariage and Jane Wilson is a lodger or something

This may answer your questions.........

Name: John Fennell
Year of Registration: 1840
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Cheltenham
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 11
Page: 199

1841.....from the image

John Fennell is the first-named person, so presumably the householder. Occ: Carpenter

Esther is next.........
Neither of them is recorded as having been born in Gloucestershire

In the same household.....listed below the Fennells
Jane Wilson...Ind.

and the 'Wilson' children

1841 does not record relationships...............

It may simply be that the enumerator misinterpreted his notes when writing up the census sheets........and that the children should be recorded as Fennells.............

Does anyone have any bright idea how to interpret the 1841 data?

It seems that Esther married John Fennell who was 20 years her senior. He doesnt seem to be the father of Ann and Lucy. What relation was Jane Wilson aged 65 and why were Anna dn Lucy called Wilson in 1841, but Fennell and Boweres in later censuses? Whose child was John Wilson ?

Hi just got back to this one - blimey talk about confusing. So are we thinking Wilson is mums (Esthers) maiden name and all the kids are illegitimate - who is the elder Wilson do we think - gran? So where did Bowers come into this, is he the errant father of the Wilson kids? John Wilson is only 10 months old, so couldhopefully have a birth cert.

Brilliant Jim many thanks for finding them.

No wonder I was struggling so much With 5 different surnames in 4 different censues

Wilson
Jennell
Fennel
Bowers
Nottingham

LOL

1841 England Census
about Esther Jennell
Name: Esther Jennell
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Gender: Female

Civil Parish: Cheltenham
Hundred: Cheltenham
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Cheltenham
Sub registration district: Cheltenham
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Jennell 50
Esther Jennell 30
Jane Wilson 65
John Wilson 10 Mo
Ann Wilson 9
Lucy Wilson 7

Unfortunaty there seems to be just 2 kids Ann Bowers c1832 and Lucy c 1834 so neither would have a birth cert. I'm afraid i cant find a record of a Hester Bowers marrying a John Fennell or indeed a plausible John Fennell Marrying and Hester./Ester.

Well she should have but it doesnt always follow that people do what they should :) But if she has given a name and occupation, why do you doubt its the truth? Her birth would be before registration, hence not on freebmd.

Have you looked for a marriage fo Hester Bowers to John Fennell?

If there isnt one, any of the kids were born after 1837 birth cert would give Hester maiden name.

I have been having great difficulty tracing my ancestor Lucy BOWERS born c 1834 Cheltenham. She married my ancestor John NOTTINGHAM on 30 Nov 1856 in Cheltenham. I couldn't find any record of her in previous censuses or Free BMD. I've now obtained the marriage cert which has given some clues. Her father is named as Henry BOWERS occup Currier (Leather worker) and her address is Albert Street, Cheltenham

In the 1851 census she is living in Albert Street with her mother Hester FENNELL and sister Ann FENNELL and is herself named as Lucy FENNELL with John FENNELL as the head of the household

In the 1861 census Hester FENNELL (1810 Bisley Glos) is a widow (living at 35 Albert St) with daughter Ann Bowers and (irrigitimate granddauther FL Bowers)

I cant find a trace of any of these people in the 1841 census.

So it seems that Hester Unknown married Henry Bowers who had daughters Ann and Lucy . By 1851 Hester had married another guy John FENNELL who had himself died by 1861.

Would Lucy have given her father's anme andhis occupation if he had died years beforehand?

Any ideas appreciated.

Wade