Genealogy Chat

Linda....I only just noticed your poece about the guy in America.....if he has a definite link between thomas and catherine's Robert and the robert who married Mary Needham.of course it would be a blessing.........i can't prove that link ..on any marriage cerificate before 1837..parents names are not given.only the groom's occupation....if you're lucky
I don't do guesses of assumptions..just no point.
I had a problem in my own tree for a marriage 1834..I got the copy cert and it had my Gt gtg grandfathers occupation on it..which in mycase sealed the deal....
I think he;s guessing....unless he can prove otherwise!!

Derek

Hi Linda.....just got back from Matlock.....thought i'd do a quick check for you...Your Ralph Bramwell 25.02.1784 is definitley Robert on the original register..can read it quite clearly.

I have also been trolling the census for you.........its getting a bit complicated because we have another Robert Bramwell who married an Ann who came from ireland!!

There is a MI at Tideswell for Robert and Martha 1875...Robert was a parish Clerk..also appears on the census......We have another..maybe the same one who was a Cordwainer...

I have the baptism dates, and some deaths for all the children of Samuel/Ann..Thomas/Catherine..Robert snr /Ann
as well as those for the three possible Roberts who married Ann needham/Esther Ann/Martha Middleton

Thomas Bramwell 02.02.1806 married Grace Bennett 13.11.1828

Your Joseph Hill Bramwell 01.03.1799 married Elizabeth Cooke 28.06.1819

There is also a Jesse son of thomas and catherine born 03.03.1799 ""
He is on the census as Jessy..and lives two doors away from one of our Roberts!!

..and if you want to get really paranoid I can tell you that all the Bramwalls disappear from the records and Bramwell takes over!!

I'm doing some work for someone else...the'r enquiries pertain to Swindell..who strangel were originally Swindalls

All the best !!!

Derek

LOL Derek...I would prefer to think that Ralph was an energetic kind of guy...but my sympathies are with Ellen!! Yes I have his 9 children lol...my husband's 2x gt grandfather John Bramwell b1826 was their 5th child. By 1851 he had moved to Stockport, Cheshire!

Many thanks for the info however when I was looking on IGI a few years ago it definately had Ralph b1784 indexed.... parents Samuel Bramwell and Ann Hill.

I had found a Joseph b c1799 Tideswell and an Elizabeth on the census which ties in with your info...by 1851 the family had moved to Droylsden, Lancashire. They had 6 known children all born in Tideswell ! Joseph died in 1876. Another cert to order!!

I cannot find Thomas and Grace on any census...I will keep looking!

Tonight I have found a Robert Bramwell b c1797 married to a Mary (Needham?) on Ancestry. The 1841 census has the family mistranscribed as Bracewell but they are Bramwell in 1851. However, taking a breather (lol), I googled Bramwell Tideswell I came across a guy from the US who has his tree online...Robert Bramwell and Mary Needham are on his family tree !! He has Robert's parents being Thomas Bramwell and Catherine Stevenson. Do I presume that his research is correct...if that is the case 3 down 2 to go!!!

I really appreciate your help and enthusiasm Derek.

Best wishes

Linda

Hi linda..have just checked out Ralph's prolific sex life!! I presume you know all about the details of his nine children
But wow!! he married when he was 35......and he was still at it aged 53!!.which in that day and age was amazing. Poor Ellen!!

Derek

Hi again Linda.....you'll need to read this very carefull and with a clear head..from what i can see some of your IGI batch Numbers etc asre ok..others are not.......I'll send you what i have found from Tideswell Parish registers....who's provenance i would prefer to sumitted IGI records......
1. It was THOMAS Bramwell who married Hannah Marshall 20.12.1820.

2.Your RALPH Bramwell bapt 1784 is on records as ROBERT!!!..but ththas to be wrong because they also had Robert in 1796

Samuel Bramwell and Ann Hill had the children you have named..
Joseph Hill Bramwell married Elizabeth Cooke 28.06.1819
Hill Bramwell died08.05.1804 aged One. and Thomas Bramwell married Grace Bennett 13.11.1811

If this family is as you say the family of you husband then Robert 30.10.1796 must be your Robert...........there are only three possible wives for him..more on that later.........I'll have a look at Ralph's mariage details..and try and find a death for Robert ..if it gives his age..and if he predeceased his wife then we're in business.

I have nine children for Thomas bramwell and catherine stevenson..including Robert 26.03.1796

Ihave six children for Robert senior and Ann Bocking .with a son Robert born 1797........

A Robert Bramwell married Mary Needham 19.11.1816 and had nine childre four of whom died very young..one of smallpox!

A Robert Bramwell maried Esther Ann Walker22.05.1823..this is my favourite...and had nine children including mary who died aged 2

A Robert Bramwell married Martha Middleton 02.02.1824 and had six children..including two hannahs.the first of which died at 17 days old...and they replaced her two years later.....

There is a possible confusion...not directly relevant to us becasue there are two Samuels married to Ann............but the second one the Ann comes from Litton..but just to confuse things she had her first child Michael 16.06.1748........

The world's gone mad!! am i'm loving it..at the risk of sounding awful..trust me I'm good at this............so just bear with me......

Derek

Hello Derek...

Going through all my papers I have a 4th marriage...

Robert Bramwell to Hannah Marshall 21/12/1820 Tideswell (batch no M058011).

I am unsure of the marriage to Esther Ann Walker...I think this is Robert son of Robert and Anne Bockin (spelling)...illogical thinking ??

On the IGI....batch no C058013...there are 9 children born to Robert Bramwell and Anne...however on some baptisms the mother's name changes to Nancy....there is also a daughter named Nancy bap 23/08/1807.

According to IGI...batch no C058011....Robert Bramwell and Esther Ann Walker have 8 children one daughter is also named Nancy bap 30/10/1820.

I said it was illogical thinking...I hope what I have written makes sense and I haven't confused you even more!!

Regards

Linda

Good afternoon Derek.

Wow you are up for a challenge...many many thanks. I don't know about having a cool head though...mine has been blowing steam over the past few years lol !

My husband's 4x gt grandparents were Samuel Bramwell and Ann Hill as you say they were married 01/12/1783. Their known children were...

Ralph Bramwell (my husband's 3x gt grandfather) bap 25/02/1784
Ann Bramwell bap 09/02/1789
William Bramwell bap 22/08/1790
Samuel Bramwell bap 01/01/1793
Robert Bramwell bap 30/10/1796
Joseph Hill Bramwell bap 01/03/1799
Hill Bramwell bap 21/10/1803
Thomas Bramwell bap 02/02/1806

Ralph married my husband's 3x gt grandmother Ellen Merryl on 12/04/1819

Samuel married Mary Walker 25/12/1818....they had a son Hill Bramwell bap 08/08/1825 who married Fanny Furniss 05/10/1846 (I have this cert).

So I am now looking again for the marriage of Robert....help lol !!

Many thanks again Derek,

Linda

Hi again Linda........I can tell you a it more now

Elias Bramwell born 16.10.1762 did not marry at Tideswell..which simply means that Hannah came from elsewhere..and cannot get her maiden name unless we know her own parish..It was very common for the girl to wed in her own Parish and then move to her new husband's.

Samuel married Ann Hill 01.12.1783
Thomas married Catherine Stevenson 19.05.1780
Robert married Ann Bocking 26.12.1786.

If you have any siblings for your Robert we can probably identify him......or i can simply send you all the children of these four families.......

By the way the records for Tideswell are:
Baptisms 1635-1841
Marriages 1635-1860
Burials 1635-1900..
so with a bit of cool headed cross referencing we might have a bit of fun!!

Derek

Linda in Cheshire..Good morning!
Well then , you certainly have a big problem here!..I actually have the Tideswell Parish records......and if there is a bigger list of surnames than the Bramwells I haven't seen one yet!!.........Normally I'd say extra enries such as witnesses would give a clue as to which Robert or whoever is the righ one..but before about 1830 there aren't any........

Here's what i ahve after a very quick look...It oesn't really help you, or me with only a date of c1796..and here's why:-

02.02.1796 Robert son of Elias and Hannah
30.10.1796 Robert son of Samuel and Ann(Hill)
26.03.1797 Robert son of Thomas and Catherine(Stevenson)
24.09.1797 Robert son of Robert and Ann(Bocking)

others are not close enough to qualify as c1796

So when it comes to marriages you look for a gap of say 18-25 years and there are only THREE:
Robert m. Mary Needham 19.11.1816
Robert m Esther Ann walker 22.05.1820
Robert m Martha Middleton 02.02.1824

the two either side of these are 1786 and 1849..the first is impossible..the second unlikely in the extreme.

This particular challenge is a good one!! i'll keep nosing around......please ask me as much as you like....

All the best

Derek

Hi Derek,

Now 'I love you to bits"... as this info cfms what I have. At this stage I do not need any more info... but wait .... there could be more ... and I will let you know.

Once again tks so much for doing these lookups for me.. I am forever in your debt.

Cheers.
Karen of Brisbane

Hi Derek, thanks for your kind offer. I am looking for more information of John Waters and his wife Hannah Sturland, also a baptism record of one of their children, Thomas.

Could you please look up their marriage register in Wilne that they were married on 01 May 1785?

Also one of their children (I think), Thomas Waters was baptised on 22 Jun 1785 in Wilne.

Regards, Steven.

Hi Derek

I am hoping that you may be able to tell me where I could purchase a CD-ROM specifically for the parish records of Tideswell please...I have googled but I cannot find anything. I visited our local FH fair last year on the hope of finding alas nothing

My husband is a direct descendant of the prolific Tideswell Bramwell family and although I have found many extracted records on IGI I have so many loose ends and puzzles...too many to mention on here!! As in many family trees each of the Bramwell family lines have the same christian names born circa the same year I don't know who's who!! For example I am trying to find the correct marriage of Robert Bramwell b c1796...I have found 4 marriages to 4 Robert Bramwells...but which one is ours...lol !

I would really appreciate any help

Many thanks

Linda

Betty Lou..so sorry marriage record stop at 1860....so i can't help you.
You might try FrreBMD for rcords after 1901.
All the best

Derek

Karen..I am more than happy to look at the Dronfield records next time i go to Matlock......was a bit messy and i need to go back anyway..so prepare me a task sheet!! lol

Derek

Karen.....so sorry..got my scribblesmixed up....Thomas Morley married Lois Inman 11.02.1776...........I got very tired......gorget the trueman

Derek

Hi Derek,

Tks so much for getting back to me with the info. Mostly it cfms what I have found.......

Just one point ..
I have Thomas Morley married to a Lois INMAN 1776. Could she have been married before to a Truman ?

I notice you have a Samuel Inman as a witness. From my research (which for this part of the family is IGI) I have Lois Inman bc 1749 in Dronfield dau of George Inman and she has a brother Samuel Inman b 1736. This makes Lois 27 when she marries Thomas Morley, easily enough time to have been married before. Also from my research Lois has a brother ,Septumis Inman b 1749 who marries and has a child called Lois Inman. b 1786 . Also Lois and George Street have a daughter Suannah Stree b1790 she marries and calls one of her children Rebecca Inman Sterland b1824. Also I have found that the offspring of the of Lois ,Thomas Morley and George Stree have put as middle names the maiden names of their mother and granmother, and with Lois being such an unusal name it stands out.... or maybe I am just on the wrong path...

Look forward to your comments/info..

Many tks once again for your help.
Cheers.
Karen of Brisbane

HI Derek

Thank you very much for looking for me. Well, if it was John's baptism in 1787 and it doesn't give his parents' names, I'm back to square one anyway!
I'll check Ashby and Measham when I next go to Leic. RO. Can i ask if you looked in the other places, Netherseal and Stretton, if you have the discs please? I can cross them off the list then, I can see this branch not getting any further back, lol.

Tracey

thank you for that Derek, that is the one I have but I find it strange that she is never ever referred to as Helen, not at either marriage or death. although I am aware the names are interchangeable. I am convinced that her parents were William and Mary, unless Elizabeth died and William married a Mary soon after.

If you go to Matlock and have time could you check to see if there is a death for Elizabeth Nightingale and a marriage soon after for William please? Thank you for all the work you are putting in for us, it is so much appreciated.

Ann
Glos

Hi Karen........Matlock was a madhouse!!!...I did get something for you however.....
Thomas morley m Lois Trueman(looks like trowman) 11.02.1776
Banns......winesses Samuel Inman and W Lee

Samuel Winchester jnr m.Elizabeth Morley off this parish 07.12.1794 Licence..witnesses Paul Parkinson and Jno Turner

Lois Morley widow of this parish m. George Street 04.06.1781 by Licence
witnesses Henry Taylor and Jethro Turner

Thomas Morley son of John..died Sept 1776..no other details

One other entry that might be of some interest Francis Inman son of francis died July 1776

I think the rest you have got..and i have checked most of it .....

Anything else i can do. please let me know

Derek

Hi Ann (Glos)......I spent a very long time at matlock yesterday.was a madhouse!The only baptism two years either side of 1806 is HELEN Nightingale 29.12.1805..daughter of William and Elizabeth Nightingale!
I couldn't find their marriage although i only looked in the few years before 1805..so they perhaps married qu7ite a bit earlier of in a different place.
I did find a samuel Nightingale bapt 05.03 1806 son of Jeremiah and Silence Nightingale if it has any relevance to you.
My visit was in many ways unsatisfactory..so i'm going back next week and I'll look a bit harder for you

All the best

Derek