Genealogy Chat

Hi Derek

If you have the time and the records for Glossop and Charlesworth, would you be prepared to take on the almost impossible task of looking for a John Hall born either Charlesworth or Glossop in about 1808? The trouble is, we have no idea of who his parents were, or if he had any brothers or sisters.

We do know that he and his wife (Elizabeth Winterbottom) were married on 1st May 1831 at Manchester Cathedral, (witnesses are not names that appear to belong to the family), first child born in Glossop or Charlesworth in 1833, on all the censuses living in or around Glossop, worked as a mechanic (probably in one of the mills), somehow acquired enough money to buy 6 terraced houses in Glossop, died 1873 and is buried with wife and several children who died in childhood in a large tomb in the churchyard of Charlesworth Independent Chapel.

It is possible that his father may have been called Joseph as first son was called Joseph, and when he died as a baby, next son called Joe Francis.

I have looked through the records for Charlesworth Independent Chapel but not found a likely candidate.

With a name like John Hall, this is not so much like looking for a needle in a haystack as an individual needle in dressmaker's shop! However, any records which might fit would be gratefully received, and I can then try to track them all forwards to eliminate them, in the hopes of leaving the one gold thread amongst the dross!

Many thanks

Tina

Derek thankyou so much for all this..and so sorry i had to trouble you again
and be a pain.
"Sarah was 6 months pregnant:" soooooooo what! lol

"GORSE continued to produce kids till 1810..........like for 19 years??????"
and whats wrong with that may i ask? lol

Thankyou again Derek for all this info, will keep me busy for a while,

Happy Star Wars Day! May the fourth....May the fourth be with you!!!

GillXX

Hey Fudge..here is a re-vamp and update on your info for LEVI GORST

James and Sarah Ratcliff (GORSE) were married 31.05.1791

Srah was 6 months pregnant:

Levi GORST bapt. 21.08.1791
Joseph GORST 22.05.1783
Catherine GORST 30.04.1795
Thomas GORST 27.08.1797

Now then, I wondered if perhaps GORST and GORST might be different families.because James and Sarah GORSE continued to preoduce kids till 1810..........like for 19 years??????

But it seems that my idea of GORST becoming GORSE in about 1800 stands up...perhaps a new Scribe was employed.....

Levi Gorse (no other birth for a LEVI) is recorded as bein buried 14.11.1891..son of James and Sarah...like 100 years old??..I think its more liely to be 14.11.1791 as an infant.......there is no recorded marriage for him.

Thomas GORST..now GORSE married Elizabeth Hinchcliffe 22.02.1810
JOSEPH GORSE (Schoolmaster) married Mary Potter 09.02.1815.

JOSEPH GORSE (wheelmaker and Turner) married MARY SHARP 18.07.1819

which means the dates are close enough for you to be very careful which one is your Joseph..........

The children of James and Sarah continue as GORSE after 1799.

James 21.12.1799...became a Blacksmith and married Mary Matilda Newham 19.10.1822
Ann 21.04.1802....died early
Henry 28.02.1803
Samuel 10.06.1805
Ann (No.2) 01.03.1808
William 25.04.1810

Any good????.I'll check the children of the two Joseph & Sarah msrriages

Derek

Yoikes!! Derek..you pmd me the info on Levi when we had problems on here the other night..and i've deleted all my messages and now its gone!

So Sorry..are you able to come up with it again?

thankyou

Gill

Hi Derek,

Just wondering if you have been into Matlock for any research on my "Winchesters"...

Look forward to hearing from you..

Cheers.
Karen of Brisbane

Hi Derek,when i looked on IGI it gave Levi's birth bapt and Death all in the same year? would you be able to check that for me please..when you have time of course..lol

thankyou so much sorry to be such a pain! but it was YOU who told me about the name GORST!! in the first place.

ha ha Gillx

Hi Fudge.....This family is SO difficult!!..One minute its Gorse then Gorst and again Gosse.........I didn't look at Gorst!!

Jame GORSE married Sarah Ratcliff 21.05.1791

LEVI was their first born but he was a GORST (21.08.1791)..so Sarah was six months up the club when they married!!

Joseph 22.03.1793..Catherine 30.04.1795.and Thomas 27.08.1797..were also all GORST......all apparently registered or baptised at St. Werbergh.

Then James/Ann/Henry and Samuel are all GORSE!!.........

Derek

Hi Derek/Billy.. please could you have another look at Levi GORST1791 Mackworth
because he is showing on IGI as the son of James and Sarah(Ratcliff)
He married an Elizabeth Dufty(no jokes please!) at Radford...

many thanks, AGAIN !
Gill x

Ha! was about to say you're wasted on here..but you're so not.

Thankyou again Derek.. off to bed with the giggles now!!

Gillx

Hey fudge..my real name is Billy Connolly

Hi Derek..thankyou for the email.so funny..you crack me up.! ever thought of going into comedy lol...
Rest assured i never ever pinch from other people,s trees unless i run it by"THE MASTER" first!


Thankyou Derek,

GillX

PS who's going to tell him me or you?..ha ha

Margaret.....can't help you with Staffordshire..sorry

Fudge1....Hey Gill.have emailed you about the marriage of Mr. Gorse..and yor information that he married a Mary Maddocks.....becomes increasingly hilarious......and your informant increasingly inept..when i tell you that Joseph Gorse married Mary SHARP at Mackworth 18.07.1819....and the WITNESSES were.....intake of anticipatory breath.....John Shepherd............GULP.........and......MARY MADDOCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You've tried the rest....now believe the best!! lololol

Derek

Oh, Derek, just a thought, but do you have any Staffordshire records? Leek in particular. I'm searching a marriage of Thomas Braddock about 1822 to a Mary. But she could have been a second wife, as there are gaps between children. In fact, gaps between them all - Sarah 1822, George 1829, Hannah 1836 and Mary Ann 1842. So he could have had several wives! But the mother of Mary Ann is Mary, and it is her I am primarily interested in. Staffordshire is particularly badly served by the IGI, second worst is Macclesfield, which suprises me as Macc has a huge Mormon Church.

Best wishes

Margaret (Maggie or Madmeg!)

Hi Derek

Re my change of name, I got into a bit of tussle with a less-than-polite Genes member and it was easier to change my ID and sign myself Maggie - though I keep forgetting that! Anyway, I am not going to get into a tussle with you, so it doesn't matter.

It would seem then that William Frith and Martha married elsewhere, perhaps also born elsewhere. Most of the males for at least 3 subsequent generations were all stone masons - but it seems that so was anyone called Frith born in North Derbyshire around that time!

Found a William Frith age 60 (+) in 1841, mason, in Milton, Bradshaw Edge (which to me is Chinley), but dead by 1851 so can't determine where born. Also in 1851, William Frith b 1810 in Eyam, a "Stone Getter" living Combs Edge, Chapel-en-le-Frith.

John Frith married in Macclesfield, so I have that, thanks.

So perhaps William and Martha were from Chapel-en-le-Frith or thereabouts.

See what you can do.

Margaret (alias Maggie!)

Derek,thats why i always check with you first! BUT lay off the scotch till you've checked! ll

Gill

Hi gill..remeber when you poke your nose into other peep's trees.you never know how much guessing has gone on.......leading to massive trouble....I only pass on stuff I'm sure about..with the odd bit of info that i make clear is either a hunch or unconfirmed......'But i'll check the Mary maddock bit for you.

Derek

Hi Margaret............what's this Madmeg bit?? lol....actually i did see somewhere that you said you changed your name..
Ok..I have the Eyam records as you know.......but unfortunately they only confirm your data.....William and Martha did not marry in Eyam..neither did John..practice was to marry in the bride's parish.

Masses of Frith's going back to 1636.........but unfortunately I can't link to your William and martha becasue there is no William born betweem 1727 and 1807..would have to have been a very old goat to have sired John 1805.
Strangely there is an older William and Martha

all i can do is give you the baptism dates for John and his siblings:

JOHN BFRITH baptised 10.03.1805
Amy 25.09.1807
Hannah 05.04.1801
Joseph 28.01.1803. married Sarah Bradshaw 30.08.1825
William 26.03.1810.....

I'll have a look for other Friths in the locality of Eyam (was up there over Easter!)

Derek

Hi again Gill..an afterthought to my previous message..see below..

As far as i can see joseph did not have as brother Levi..but the children of James and Sarah (Ratcliff) were as follows:

Joseph 1793
Catherine 1795
Thomas 1797
James 1799....bapt. 21.12.1799
Ann 21.04.1802 died 05.05.1802
Henry 28.02.1803
Samuel 10.06.1805
Ann (no2)01.03.1808
William 25.04.1810

The reason that Joseph Gorse ( and catherine and Thomas) do not appear in the mackworth baptisms..ios because they are listed in the St.Werbergh Derby baptisms..and obviously james and Sarah had the rest of their brood in Mackworth

Now for a very large Scotch!!

Derek

Me again. I am now on the trail of John Frith, born Eyam, christened 10 March 1805, parents William and Martha. Siblings Hannah 1801, Joseph 1803, Amy 1807 and William 1810. John moved to Macclesfield, so I have his details. Anything you can find about John Frith and his wife Martha gratefully appreciated.

The family became quite famous in Macclesfield, as their eldest son, Joseph, became the first Registrar of Deaths at Macclesfield Municipal Cemetery, and his brother Alfred succeeded him in about 1888.

Margaret