Genealogy Chat

Hi Derek,

many thanks for your time in searching Kirk Langley. Sorry its taken a while to reply, kids on holiday and getting in the way of my Family history time!

Was Samuel baptised at Kirk Langley? I believe Samuel is the illegitimate child of John Sherratt and Ellen Gregsons daughter, Ellen, baptised 14.01.1816. who went on to marry Samuel Webster. Not sure Samuel accepted him as he's living with his grandparents in 1841 and farm labourer for Mary Brough in Town Street on 1851.
Do you know if there'd be any bastardy records for him?

The other children I have for John Sherratt and Ellen Gregson are Elizabeth c1807, Mary c1809 (cant find baptisms for these two) John 13.10.1811, Ellen, John 12.10.1817, William 07.05.1820, and Ann 21.02.1825 . the baptisms for Elizabeth and Mary (and any others I dont know about) would be great if you could find that out next time your at the records office. And any other Sherratt/Gregson info you come across that looks connected. John Sherratt does say he's from Morridge, Staffordshire which would have been near Ipstones. I have found one from Ipstones for 1786 and not come across anyone else yet near this, so my moneys on that one.

Very curious your grandmother was an Ellen Gregson too! You never know, we could be related if my Gregsons end up from there. I'll have to do more digging on her side and see what I can find.

Thanks again

Annette

Thanks Derek, Updating the tree now.

Hi joan......actually you gave me the clue...if you look at your notes for Robert Hall on your tree..you have written Taxal Whaley Bridge for his baptism.....God knows where you got it from!!........but I have confirmed it..so you can get rid of one or two "circa's" on your tree..as well as adding John hall's father henry..and his baptism date which I gave you.
Actually its a good tree..and will look even better with confirmed information.

I was just lucky to find the taxal Records..........but if you know where to look.......

Incidentally there are a huge number of HALL type peeps in Hope

Next time i go to Matlock I'll try and go back further for you.....

All the best

Derek

Derek, you are a genius.........I have copied and saved your post on a word doc.......saved as , you will like this.............Derek's Glory. lol

So my Hall's were gypsies........Aaron, my grandfather moved to Rochdale, had numerous children, and for some reason............which I WILL find out, left my Grandmother in the work house.

I would never have thought of looking at Cheshire. Just shows how handy local knowledge is.

Thank you so much. Joan, with a big grin.

Phew!! Joan.......what family!!

You can relax......I couldn't have done this without your tree, wherein lies the answer.withoput you knowing it.

This might pass as my best sleuthing to date.

TAXAL WHALEY BRIDGE!!

Two main difficulties researching NW Derbyshire...one is that half the time you don't know which County you're in..and second your halls seem to have visited them all!!

Taxal is in CHESHIRE..though part of the place became Derbys in 1936

ROBERT HALL baptised Taxal..son of JOHN and ELLEN (of Kettleshulme) 10.05.1789.............Source Taxal parish records...

Seems John and Ellen Kinder married somewhere very close to Chapel/Hayfield/Chinley (Haven't found their marriage yet)....gave birth to Robert 1789...at Chapel or close by..but he was baptised 1789 in Taxal.

Now. he may well have been born 1786..but all the dates we deal with that far back are BAPTISMS....often weeks, months, or even years after birth.

Robert in his adulthood went off to Glossop..but came back to Chapel to marry Grace Robinson..which is why the marriage record says "of Glossop"..

So you can now forget Robert and Esther and glory in the fact that John and Ellen Kinder are right.....and they were in Cheshire when they baptised Robert.

Bear in mind you can almost cover any of these places with one hand....well not quite!!
One mistake on your tree....John Hall b.c1760..would not have married Ellen in 1745!!!

Hope thats sorted it for you....I'll try and go a bit further back..becasue you already know that John was the son of henry

Derek

Oh Derek, Think I'm going barking mad, I feel like a marooned shrub in a forest.

Now, to answer your question. I did see a Robert and Esther. But for some reason or other, I discounted them. You could be right. So, the big question is, John and Ellen, or John and Esther ?????

When you see my maiden name, you will wonder why I ever got involved in all this. lol

Thanks, Derek, Hopefully you will get the answer, I'm sure it wont be for want of trying if you don't.

PS.........I think John is Robert's father, because the "timing" seemed to fit, as did the geography, and I think Robert named one of his children after his father. Wish the census went backi further.

Hello Joan..have been looking at some more of the HALL family.....concentrating on Hayfield.........where i found Joseph and Hannah among others.
Bishops Transcripts of Marriages at Hayfield give the marriage of Robert and Grace 16.07.1811..which we already knew..but one tiny clue given is that Robert came from Glossop.....
I have the Glossop records, but still cannot find his Birth!!

Not giving up though!!

ADDITION 11.32.......could it be that you are barking up the wrong tree?????....Robert Hall October 1787 bapt Glossop....son of Robert and Esther............
.who at some stage moved to Chapel to marry Grace???
Your original enquiry was "Can you confirm John is the father of Robert...."

short answer.......I don't think i can......lol

Have looked everywhere and since Robert definitley origi9nated in Glossop....I would ask you why you think his father is John....

Don't you just love this game!!

Derek

Hi Derek,

From memory, there were a few Josephs born within 2 Years of each other. The Joseph I have. married Hannah Wood. His parents were Robert Hall, and Grace Robinson. I'm pretty sure he is the right one, 'cos his brother John born c1814 was on the census with him. Listed as his brother. I hope I was right in assuming that.

He hee, He was the 1st of 3 Josephs on the trot. Add to that all the other Josephs that weren't mine, and you will know I was climbing the walls.

Just out of curiosity do you know of any cotton mill accidents between 1851 and 1861 ? Is there a site that shows old newspapers or anything. I have tried all the Derbyshire sites that I can think of, but had no joy.

William and Sarah...........I don't have those names. If you want to look at my tree, let me know. And I'll tick the box.

Thanks for your help so far, Joan

Joan.........I Have the family of William and Sarah including a Joseph born 30.06.1822...I could in fact log every Hall Baptism at Chapel from the Bishop's Transcripits i have..........and give a real jigsaw puzzle to work out!!
I'll keep looking fopr Roberts Baptism and parents..

Derek.

Hi Derek,

Thank you so much for looking, hopefully you may find him in the Mickleover records whenever you get chance.

Chris

Wow, Derek, Thank you. Yes there are a lot of Halls in that area. They have been driving me demented. Especially all the Josephs.

You have found me a Henry too, That has taken me back one more generation. brilliant. Thank you so much.

Hi Chrissie..........I'm afraid I didn't find any john Dakin, Daken, Daykin in Kirk Langley between 1803-1815.
I even looked at close villages like.Kedleston, Radbourn and Mackworth.

There is no JD from Kirk langley on IGI.........
.....but I have to confess I missed your mention of Mickleover..and never looked. Sorry.
But again there is no Mickleover John on IGI either.

I don't have records for Mickleover.but will look next time I go to Matlock..which won't be long.

Derek

Hi Derek,

I wondered if you had any luck last week with the baptism of John Dakin c 1809 in Kirk Langley/Mickleover.

Chris

Good morning Joan........I have found the marriage of Robert hall to Grace Robinson 16.07.1811..and the witnesses ..Henry lomas and Thomas Mellor.

Have found the Baptism of JOHN HALL 20.04.1760..son of Henry

These are from Bishops Transcripts for Chapel en Le Frith..which strabgely do not include a Marriage for John or a Birth for Robert.

Have looked at Hayfield and other High peak records..no joy yet...but I'll find him!!!

Lots of Halls at Chapel for the period you're searching!!


Derek

Thanks a million Derek for the Birkins info.
Guess I'll have to look elsewhere in Derby for a possible marriage, as I still need to confirm Liz's maiden name.
You've been a geat help Derek, I appreciate this. Thanks again.

Hello Derek,

I 'm not sure where. Has to be, Chapel,or Hayfield . I have tracked a lot down in the Chapel le Frith area, and Hayfield. To save you looking back, I'll do a quick copy and paste for you, under this. Sorry I can't be more specific.

I have a Robert Hall born c1786 who married Grace Robinson born c1790. They married 16/07/1811 in Chapel. I think I have found all their children.

If you could confirm that John Hall born c 1760 who married Ellen Kinder born c 1760 is Robert's father I would be very grateful. Pushing my luck here, but if you should come across any other info, that would be great.

Hi Annette......

Have been unable to find the birth of Ellen Gregson 1782..but will continiue looking....

I can tell you that ELLEN GREGSON married JOHN SHERRATT aqt Kirk langley 11.05.1807(witnesses THOMAS Gregson.andMary Gray)..suggesting her father was Thomas.

Also I have found the baptism of SAMUEL SHERRATT 07.02.1835..and his mother is Ellen Sherratt.Spinster and he is listed as illegitimate

Which bespeaks an interesting little scandal of Ellen being very naughty and her husband John agreeing to accept her child Samuel as his own.............or not!!

Very curiously my own mother was an illegitimate daughter of one ELLEN GREGSON!!.....(in Lancashire)

Bad lot those Gregson!!

Another intersting fact is that the highest concentration of the name GREGSON in 1801 and in1901 in the whole of the UK was in Preston Lancashire..so there is a fair chance that the forebears of your Ellen came from there.

All the best

Derek.

Jen..re the Birkins.......I found the following:

Both William and John Birkin.sons of James and Elizabeth were baptised on the same day 26.08.1740..Aston on trent....no toher details.
If James married Elizabeth Ashton it was not at Aston.

Derek.

Joan..I'm afraid I rather let you down, didn't find what you wanted because i can't find the message that gives the place.......if you can remind me where they were married I'll have another look next week.

Derek

Hi Derek,

It's very good of you to update us re your next visit to the records office. Many thanks for all the look ups you do for us.

Chris