Genealogy Chat

Hi Derek,

Thanking you in advance for looking at Thomas Dakins marriage when you go on Friday. Just a little reminder re your offer to check Mickleover baptisms for John Dakin c1809-1811 as he wasn't in Kirk Langleys records.

You're a star for doing all these searches for us.

Chris

Derek,

I am so glad to be able to give you so much pleasure!

You are correct with all you say about Thomas Needham b Tideswell 1802 and seemingly never baptised. It would solve untold problems if you could find a suitable baptism when you are next at the records office. And if his father is William, a butcher, all the better.

As well as the two wives you have (Mary and Eliza - the 2 children with him and Eliza in 1851 are by Mary), his first wife was Margaret Hill (married 11/12/1820, died abt 1831), with whom he had Edward 1823, Sarah 1826 and Thomas 1830.

Yes, I had most of the other Needhams you mention, but do not think they are connected with Thomas b 1802.

Best wishes

Margaret

Hi chrissie......THOMAS DAKIN baptised 02.03.1845 Mickleover Derby...son of JOHN Dakin and ELIZABETH.

I'm off to matlock on friday and won't forget you this time!!

Derek

Hi Derek,

Whenever you get the chance could you please look up a marriage for me for Thomas Dakin c 1844 Mickleover and Mary Eyre c 1845 Castleton which took place in Dec q 1868 in Chapel district. I believe he is my Thomas but need fathers name confirming, hopefully it will be John Dakin. Could you also tell me who the witnesses were as it may corroborate I have the right marriage.

Thank you

Chris

Thanks joan
keep in touch xx
Derek

Hi Derek,

If only the census had started earlier Eh. I had a similar problem with one of my Josephs........Thanks to a census form, I found he had a brother, and was able to solve the problem from that. I hope you get a break with one of your three grannies. Lot of luck in all this isn't there.

Hi joan..my mother's lot in Lancashire go back to 1530..but I am much more concerned with my Father;s side of the family..I've only got back 1757.
One of the major problems in all my researches either for myself or for "you lot"....is when you get a marriage entry before they included parents names..like mine is 1802..which show both groom and bride are OTP.."off this parish"..but neither of them were born there......and there is little or no chance of knoiwing where they were born...
My ggg grandmother was Ann Gregory b.1775/1776..and there are about three of them in Derbyshire!!

Derek

Thanks Derek,

When I was looking on the net, I found piecers, but all I could get for pickers, was the plantations, and i couldn't believe Derbyshire had those.

Just out of interest Derek, how far back have you managed to get with your family? Or have you not had the time because of us lot on here :-)

Joan..after hours of really boring research(lolol).....Cotton pickers..picked the cotton crop......which is fairly self evident...but seems also to have been a job for young boys in getting the raw cotton out of bales and to the looms.......

Cotton Piecer is again usually a young boy because of his nimble fingers and ability to fit into small spaces between the machinery in order to mend broken threads in the weaves...to piece them together.
He would do an immense amount of walking, becasue there were always many broken threads.......
He also worked in a cotton warehouse and do menial tasks.

Children were of course cheaper than adults!

Not much fun for children in the Industrial Revolution.

(Actually it took me less than 10 minutes)

Derek

Hello Derek,

This will be very boring question for you. I have looked on google and shed loads of "cotton mill" sites, and still don't know the answer.

Is there a difference between a cotton piecer, and a picker ? On my Hall's census returns, both are listed for young children.

This will hopefully be an off the top of your head question for you.. But, if you wish to be kind, please tell me it took you hours of research, I wont feel such a pillock then. Thanks Derek,

Hello again Margaret..........don't i just love working for you!! Blimey.

Ok.have been through everything i've got including the Census returns and IGI.
Very curious.......there is No Thomas Needham baptised 1802 Tideswell..was it just missed out by my transcriber?? Must remember to look at the originals next time I go to Matlock.
But he existed, and married, and bred...and died in Tideswell 02.11.1877 aged 75.
The 1851 Census has him married to Eliza.with two children. He married ELIZA REECE at Tideswell 14.11.1850......WHAT????? that must be wrong!!!
But you're dealing with a Class Act here!! lolol

he had two children..both at Tideswell..Elizabeth 1834 and Ruth 1837..both born to Thomas and Mary.........BINGO....He married MARY SWINDELL at Tideswell 25.12.1833....daughter Elizabeth bapt 07.11.1834 and Ruth 16.01.1837
Mary died Tideswell 31.08.1842 aged 38
Thomas died Tideswell.. 02.11.1877 aged 75

Full story i think..except for his birth..............

Now then...THOMAS NEEDHAM 1815 is a totally different person and not related.........I don't know how much of this you know but here goes/

WILLIAM NEEDHAM (1739) married MARY WAIN 20.04.1754
they had three children WILLIAM 20.04.1760
ANN 1766 married William redfern 1790
THOMAS 27.11.1768 who married Elizabeth bennet 1790 and had five kids.

WILLIAM NEEDHAM(20.04.1760) married Elizabeth Furniss 1780
and had:

WILLIAM NEEDHAM21.10.1787 who married ELIZABETH HARRISON
31.12.1810..parents of THOMAS NEEDHAM 09.03.1815
THomas married ANN(E) FLINDERS 12.09.1839

One last strange co-incidence...both of your Thomases were COTTON HAND-LOOM weavers.

You owe me a bottle of Scotch!!

Derek


Thomas bapt 09.03.1815 son of William (butcher) and Elizabeth Harrison..they had a child out of wedlock in 1814 who died in infancy.

Hi Derek

That is the right couple in Alverstoke. Apparently John Royle was a prominent and wealthy banker (amongst other things), but made bad investment decisions and in 1841 was made bankrupt, hence the move down south to family who still had money. I believe "annuitant" was used to describe anyone living on their own wealth, including a pension.

Re the Needhams, I am looking again at Thomas Needham marrying Eliza Reece in Tideswell, 1850, his father is William, a butcher. This Thomas is on the 1861 census aged 59, and is consistent on all censuses as having been born about 1802. However, there is a Thomas baptised in 1815 with a father William, butcher, mother Elizabeth. Possible marriage of William to Elizabeth Harrison 31/12/1810. One can think of all sorts of possibilities for the discrepancy, but I wonder if the baptismal record gives the age of the person being baptised?

Hope you can help

Margaret

Hi Margaret.....you're mad!!! lol

Susannah Hurt does not appear in the Cromford Parish records..nor in matlock bath, nor in Matlock.

Curiously the 1804 entry you mention is in Wirksworth!! could this bne a misprint..since she married John Ryle in Wirksworth..which i have checked and can confirm.

I have an 1851 census return for John Ryle and his wife Susannah at Alverstoke in Hampshire, with an unmarried daughter Mary A aged 39

He is an Annuitant (something to do with pensions) and he was born in Macclesfield Cheshire..His birth entry is macclesfield (Christ Church) 19.12.1780..son of John and Mary.

Curously the Susannah born in Wirksworth also had parents John and Mary..

Not sure where to go on this..so i'll look at your other bits....

Derek

Hi Derek,

You'll be glad to know I was joking - I think? I'll get back to Needhams later. For the moment I am trying to find Susanna Hurt born c 1780 at Cromford. The only one I can find on IGI was born in 1804, so too young. She married John Ryle (born Macclesfield) on 6 Feb 1811 at Wirksworth. According to various websites she was a cousin of Richard Arkwright, the inventor, and I now know that one of John Ryle's sisters married into the Darwin family. In fact, I'm also wanting to know where (Lady) Jane Harriet Darwin is buried - died April1866 at either Breadsall or Morley, near Derby. Her husband, Sir Francis Sacheverel Darwin is buried at Breadsall Church but there is no mention of her.

Margaret

Hi Margaret......if you start a one Name Study i can give you hundreds of needhams from about 60 Derbyshire Parishes!!

I forget exactly what you were looking for..if you care to remind me.....will be happy to oblige.

Derek x

Hi Derek and Chrissie

Just to say (and I am sure Derek knows this), but I have Dakins in my tree (different area of Derbyshire) and alternative spellings have included Deacon, Deakin and Deakon. Plus the older Daykin.

Margaret

PS Derek, any more Needhams found? Shall I start a one-name study?

Hi again Derek,

thanks for the extra info, you are a star!

Annette

Hi Derek,

Still looking for Winchesters of Derbyshire, dont suppose you found them on your last trip to Matlock office...

I know you guys are beating us at cricket at the moment, but please dont hold this against me.....

Cheers.
Karen of Brisbane

Annette..little bit more......

Elizabeth SHARRAD daughter of John Sharrad was baptised at Longford..26.08.1807

Did you not say you thought Ellen gregson might be fom Longford???
This could be another bit of naughty nookie.because by 1809..they are married and living at Kirk Langley where;

Mary SHERRATT,,daughter of John and Ellen was baptised 30.04.1809

Heehee!!

Derek

Hi Annette..yes your Samuel was baptised Kirk Langley..illegitimate son of Ellen ...........didn't realise there were two Ellen's!!
Anything else you need can be sorted next time i go to Matlock.

By the way..I did ask about bastardy orders for Samuel......no evidence of any....

Derek