Genealogy Chat

Hi Margaret......a starting point is..Hannah Oldield bapstised 02.01.1839 daughter of Ciciley.............no husband mentioned.......bear witn me.it's late and I'm on the Scotch.......Doesn't do my professional credibility too much good admitting that..but what the hell.....those of you whoi have been around a while trust me.........
Tideswell baptisms only go to 1841.......
Derek

Hi Derek, another little mystery. Joseph Brightmore b 1829 married Ann Robinson who died in 1876. He then married Hannah Oldfield b 1839 Tideswell, in Salford (don't ask, but I am pretty sure it is right) in Sep 1877, and they had a daughter Selina b Tideswell 1880.

It is the origins of Hannah I am concerned about. In 1841, 1851 and 1861 she is with her apparently widowed mother Selina (with various incorrect spellings), which would seem right as Hannah named her child Selina. There is also brother Samuel age 9 in 1841.

I can find a Henry Oldfield marrying Selina Mellor 16/5/1826. Son of Henry and Selina, Samuel ch 12/11/1826, d 25/2/1827, and another son Samuel ch 18 Sep 1831, child of Henry and Cicely (not Selina). The only plausible Hannah is ch 1/2/1839, daughter of Cicely, no father given, but the CD notes "wife of Henry".

Do you have any evidence that Cicely is Selina?

Margaret

Hi again Derek. do you have access to derby court records at all. I believe I have found a couple of the Meashams on derbycourts site but I am not sure if there are any more. One was accused of stealing a Drugget (rug) !!! found not guilty

Sorry Derek only just picked this up as had to dash off out urgently yesterday. Thanks for the offer marriages would perhaps be a help towards sorting this lot out and I would love to receive them. Thanks for the good luck I actually forgot to record game so missed it Grrrrrrrrr. But hey ho we won.

Gooner.....I can list all the repton Marriages including anything from Meakin to Measham, from 1578-1837 if thats a help..but is only the marriages...........Good luck tonight! I see your favourite man is captain!!...but probably not playing tonight.

Derek

HI Derek, I assumed James b 1785 died, cos there is a second James b 1797. Ooh so good to have you confirm all this.

Best wishes

Margaret

Thanks Derek I have got several names I would love to try and link as you know. I also think that the spelling changed several times and there are quite a few variations of it. It is a shame there is no way I can find them from down here but thats just the way of things. Many thanks again for all your help .

La Gooner........Hi again....I don't think such a CD exists..and the early Meashams are unreadable cos as you know I went to Matlock for you......but I haven't given up

Derek

Madmeg............Hi Margaret.............Can confirm everything you have asked.but no mention of James Brightmore dying.......

Thomas brightmore marriec Ann Mycock 22.08.1779

A couple of children you missed..... RALPH BRIGHTMORE bapt 19.11.1779....buried 15.02.1785

MARY BRIGHTMORE bapt. 24.06.1793

of your list..Grace bapt.1787 buried 06.11.1789
and EMMA batised 21.08.1803..buried 15.10.1803

I have the same Val neal disc that you have..perhaps i'm useing a different format to you.........but i assure you everyhting i have given you is dead accurate.

Derek

Hi Derek, still having bother sorting these dreaded Meashams and I was wondering if you know of a CD that I could buy which would cover Repton bmds. Thanks

Hi Derek

The CD I have is Tideswell Parish Registers from Val Neal. Money well spent.

Apparently Robert Brightmore and Catherine Bramwell ARE related - he is brother of my friend's Thomas Brightmore b 1800 and she is sister of our Robert 1797 and Mary Bramwell 1801. Two brothers married two sisters.

Can you confirm the following:

Thomas Brightmore m Ann Mycock 22/8/1779

Kids Robert 1782, James 1785 (died ?), Grace 1787 (died 6/10/1789), Ann 1789, Elizabeth 1791, Grace 1795, James 1797, Thomas 1880, Emma 1803.

Also:

Thomas Brightmore ch 23/3/1758, James same date, Mary 1755, kids of Ralph and Grace.

Thanks.

Not a lot more to bother you about on this family, you'll be glad to know!

Love

Margaret

I suspected they weren't and said as much..just thought there might be a link becasue she was a Bramwell..All the best..enjoy the wedding.

Derek

Children of Robert and Catherine?

I don't have a Robert and Catherine.
Nor anyone that fits into your dates.

Margaret

You're a star. It all makes sense when you have the actual parish records, and not relying on other sources.

You have sorted it all. I knew you would.

Have a pseudo scotch on me!

Margaret

Margaret..here's a sad saga:: THOMAS BRIGHTMORE & MARY BRAMWELL....not very lucky with their childre:-
Elizabeth died 09.04.1824 aged 15 months
William died 24.01.1825 i week old
Jesse died 18.12.1834 aged 2 of small pox.

ROBERT andCATHERINE weren't much luckier.....

Ann died 16.10.1817
Jesse died 08.07.1825 aged 6

Catherine herself had died 30.03.1819 aged 33..clealry just after the birth of Jesse......

any more pearls i can find you?? lo
OOPs..just realised..perhaps Robert and catherine aren't yours? but Catherine was a Bramwell

Derek

Hi margaret.ok let's deal with Ann Robinson first. Forget IGI..if we have the parish records to work with, as we have,then unless IGI agrees with them.IGI is wrong.
At least, that's how i work

I have the Tideswell records in five different formats..aome are more informative than others.

ANN ROBINSON baptised 23.10.1829.....daughter of Edward and Ellen.....married JOSEPH BRIGHTMORE 28.06.1852...if and when she dies ahe is a Brightmore not a Robinson.....The full marriage record gives Ann's father as Edward.a Weaver..as you know,,and Joseph's father as a Stone Mason called Thomas.

The confusion lies in the fact that another Ann Robinson was baptised 08.01.1830 daughter of Richard and Sarah..stay with me!! there is also Ann Robinson who marries 29.06.1852..but her father is a shoemaker named Samuel..........
SO Ann Robinson 08.01.1830 did not marry......becasue she died 01.08.1839 aged 10.........end of story!

will get back later with your other "problems"

OK back 18.29..I don't know which CD you've got margaret but its a bit different from mine.........MARY ROBINSON Burial..is correct on IGI and backed up on Tideswell Burials..Buried 18.01.1829 aged ONE YEAR AND SIX MONTHS (died of POX) presumably small pox.

Again according to Tideswell parish records...Edward and Elle had SIX children.....

Mary 30.06.1827
ANN 23.10.1829
Jane 05.06.1832
Joseph 31.02.1835
Richard 15.07.1837
Hannah 12.12.1841

Derek

Sorry, I'm not giving you chance to breathe!

Something is amiss with my records of Ann Robinson bc 1830 who marries Joseph Brightmore on 28 Jun 1852, father Edward, a weaver.

IGI has Edward marrying Ellen Hudson 25/12/1826.

IGI gives 4 children, Mary Jun 1827, Ann Oct 1829, Jane and Richard.

Edward m Ellen Hudson 25/12/1826 and in 1841 and 1851 they have children Ann, Jane, Richard and later Hannah b 1842.

But IGI says Ann ch Oct 1829 dies 1/8/1839. On the other hand, my Tideswell CD says the Ann dying on that date is age 4.

Info on Mary is also odd - IGI says the Mary b June 1827 dies 18/1/1829, but the CD says she is 41 (though does give parents as Edward and Ellen).

Do you have any better information?

Margaret

Hi Derek

Thanks, this confirms what I had on that lot. I didn't have Ellen Bramwell 1783. But I do have Ellen Royles b 1827 to Nicholas and Dorothy - rather later than the other children, am I wrong?

Sorry, I misled you on Thomas Brightmore marrying a Needham - it was his grandson James (son of Joseph and Ann Robinson) who married (another) Mary Needham, grand-daughter of the Thomas Needham (b 1801) for whom we can find no baptism.

The wedding is taking place in Hope in 5 weeks. Everyone though that Hope was an odd choice, but it seems rather fitting now I have discovered ancestors on both their sides having married there. And on that day, my friend with whom I have been trying to prove a relationship will become the 6th cousin once removed of my son-in-law. Closest we can get!

Many thanks

Margaret

Hi Derek

Thanks, this confirms what I had on that lot. I didn't have Ellen Bramwell 1783. But I do have Ellen Royles b 1827 to Nicholas and Dorothy - rather later than the other children, am I wrong?

Sorry, I misled you on Thomas Brightmore marrying a Needham - it was his grandson James (son of Joseph and Ann Robinson) who married (another) Mary Needham, grand-daughter of the Thomas Needham (b 1801) for whom we can find no baptism.

The wedding is taking place in Hope in 5 weeks. Everyone though that Hope was an odd choice, but it seems rather fitting now I have discovered ancestors on both their sides having married there. And on that day, my friend with whom I have been trying to prove a relationship will become the 6th cousin once removed of my son-in-law. Closest we can get!

Many thanks

Margaret

Madmeg.right, dealing with this bit by bit because a) there are millions of Bramwells and Royles in Tideswell..at least a dozen Robert Bramwells!..and also at Hope, where Nicholas married Dorthy Wragg..an b) i am, in the words of the prophet .cream crackered.

NICHOLAS ROYLES born Tideswell 05.01.1772 son of Robert and Ellen.
married DOROTHY WRAGG at Hope 20.04.1805
They had the following children (at Tideswell)
James 09.03.1806
George 05.07.1812
JOHN 21.21.09.1817
Thomas 06.11.1814

ROBERT BRAMWELL married MARY NEEDHAM 19.11.1816 at Tideswell

ANN ELIZABETH their daughter baptised 23.01.1817

married (the above) JOHN ROYLES (of Hallam) 28.10.1839

That's as far as i've got at the moment, but will no doubt add more details as I find them.
Ok ADDITION 23.45.THOMAS BRAMWELL married CATHERINE STEVENSON Tideswell 19.05.1780

Children:

Ellen 23.02.1783
Thomas 15.11.1789
Elizabeth 24.06.1792
ROBERT 26.03.1797
Jesse 03.03.1799
Mary 11.12.1801

MARY BRAMWELL married THOMAS BRIGHTMORE 10.10.1822
Brightmore children:

Elizabeth 16.-2.1823
William 17.01.1825
Joseph 11.01.1829
Jesse 19.10.1832
Ralph 01.01.1839

P.S.have had a hunt around and have found no link fo Thomas brightmore to the Needhams.....enlighten me!!

Derek