Genealogy Chat

Hi Derek, I bet you dread my question.LOL. This time not a Measham.

Can you see if you can find any information on Sarah Dalby born 1786 Shardlow. I know she had a son Francis (unknown father) but that is all.

No need to apologize Derek - it was me that was wrong. Again, I'll blame the paint fumes!!! You did say 1861 in the previous post.

But great for you, as that actually fits in with my research, as Sarah, his wife, and three of their children were visiting a family called "the Taylors" on that night, with Samuel not with them. So it's great you found him!

And your info on Mary Gerrard is most welcome, and I have done all the looking up to see how that family all fleshes out, but how can we be sure that she is his mother?

The one son Joseph fits with a possible father's name of Joseph, but the bible death date of 26 Mar 87 doesn't fit with Mary's "widow" dates on the censuses.

Maybe on our trip, we can suss out the churchyards and look for info on the stones - and confirm the info in my cousin's family bible.

Many, many thanks, Derek and cheers,
Diane

Diane..the discrepancy lies in that I was looking at 1861 not 1881

In 1861 Samuel is the sole occupier of "The bank" aged 39..a Journeyman Miller.......clearly away from his family learning his trade......don't forget this was on the night of the Census...which means that he could well live normally at home with his wife and family

On the same night:
at Bradbourne Mill:

Mary Gerard 70 widow Farmer and Miller head of household.
Her son Joseph 38 Miller
Daughter Mary 37
daughter Judith 38
Daughter in law Hannah..

and her children Samuel and catherine.

sorry to misinform you

Derek

Thanks Derek, I'm getting excited now.

I have traced Chapels Henry Bap 1717 Parents, another Henry, so am well on my way again. Thank you so much, I just wish all those dads didn't name one of their sons with the same name as themselves.

Thanks again. You are a gem xx

My good gracious, the 1800's certainly were a promiscuous, and very forgiving generation weren't they?? And no wonder there were so many "secrets" from little children. Very, very hard to unravel, but you've done a great job Derek. Interesting that you have Samuel Gerrard living alone at Lea Hall in 1881. I have him living with his family - a miller of corn in 1881. Wonder where the discrepancy lies on that one??

He sure is an elusive character, isn't he? Wondering - do they have birth ceertifcates back that far?? My brain seems to remember 1837 as a cut off, but ..........

Once I finish with the paint fumes muzzing up my brain, will start a full blown search for his parentage.

Thanks Derek, another great job!
Diane

Hello Joan..can pretty well confirm all your data from Chapel-en-le Frith..John was indeed the son of Henry son of John.

I wouldn't bother too much about his age.......my own GGG Grandfather born 1757..married my GGG Grandmother in 1802.and went on to sire TEN children by her..three of which died in their first year, and one of whose graves i still tend at Ashford in the Water......befroe he died in 1825.

Because of the age i have long suspected it was his second marriage..which might be the case for John Hall.......

It's always difficult to cross reference up in the High Peak..you're never quite sure which is Derbys and which is Staffs..Taxal Whaley Bridge Kettleshulme are but a (long!!) stone';s throw from Chapel

Take care

Derek

OK......to continue from the posting below......through one of the two illegitimate sons of Sarah Ann Gerrard..the Gerrard family can be traced down to living relatives............

Now to SAMUEL BLACKWELL........I think any link to EYAM is way back and peripheral...or just a coincidence...

GEORGE BLACKWELL 1811 married ANN from Kniveton b.1815 ( I can give you details later because i have the Kniveton Records)

They had FIVE children of which SAMUEL 1850 was the youngest..

as you know he married Hannah and had three children with her before later marrying Sarah Ann gerrard.
If you need further details of children in order to boost your family tree just shout!!
Edit 14.12..you're going to love this!! No telly in those days:
GEORGE BLACKWELL father of Sanuel was born 23.03.1810 illegitimate son of Jane..at Parwich
His wife ANN BLORE was born at Kniveton 03.09.1815..the illegitimate daughter of Hannah (born 1784) !!! and she brought an illegitimate son JOHN b 1840 to the marriage!!
Heehee...
Derek

Hello Diane and Annina....GREAT NEWS..I have been able to put together the complete Blackwell Gerrard Saga..probably one of my best efforts yet!!!

Was a bit difficult to sort out becasue althought I have the full Bradbourne and Lea Hall Censuses i was thrown by the fact that in 1861 SAMUEL GERRARD 1822-1889 (died 26.03.1889) was living on his own at Lea Hall even though married to SARAH..........

Ok.. JOHN ENSOR 10.09.1794 of Bradbourne married Hannah BLORE b. 1795 in Stockport Cheshire..they married 19.11.1817

They had SIX children beginning with SARAH ENSOR 1820 at Ballidon (she died 1886.)
followed by five others.
SAMUEL GERRARD and SARAH ENSOR had FOUR children the youngest of which was SARAH ANN GERRARD b.1860 Bradbourne
Sarah Ann had three illegitimate childrenbetween 1881 and 1889..father unknown

more later x

Hello again Derek, Can you sort me out before the men in white coats come for me???????

I have John Hall Bap. 20/04/1760 who Married Ellen Kinder of Ketteshulme. Source Taxal Parish Records. I am happy that is correct.

Now my problem starts.

John's father is listed as Henry. I have traced a Henry Hall, Bap. in Chapel 28/02/1718 son of Henry , Source Chapel en le Frith Parish Records. He also had a sister Alice Bap. 14/04/1717 If this is correct it would be brilliant, as I have found both parents. Henry and Mary bap 9/12/1698.

If the above is correct, it would mean he was around 42 years old when he had John. I am none too happy with the age gap. Or in your experience would that be normal.

I have a second Henry. This one born or Bap 20/06/1731 in St Oswald Ashbourne. Also son of Henry. So now I am stuck!!!

Part of me wants it to be the 1st Henry, but, I don't want to bend the facts to fit . Can you please confirm if possible, if either of them is correct. Or worse tell me I'm totally barking up the wrong tree.

Thanks Derek,

Well bu........blow me, so you did,2 hrs wasted, that's what looking after a post-op husband does for you, I am going doolally.

Still, nice to know I'm correct, i'm getting better at this.

Annina....you're right about samual Blackwell';s parents..but I did offer that inof soem four messages back!!lol

Hi Derek and Dianne,I have made some headway with your Samuel Blackwell. His parents seem to be George Blackwell c1811 Parwich,
and Ann Endsor 1818 Brassington.

I found Samuel in 1881 with his first wife Hannahc1850 b Brassington and 3 kids,Mary 7, Ann 5 and Samuel 3.

1901 with wife Sara Ann Gerrard,and kids Elsie Emma,7, Pamela,3 John William 1mth and grandson, Earnest Arther Blackwell,5.

I don't seem to be able to connect this family of Blackwells to my Eyam ones,but Derek, if you have older records,perhaps you can trace George further back.

Will delve a bit more, love Nina

Hi Diane............have found Sarah Ann gerrard's parentage...I suggested earlier that her marriage to Samuel was her second marriage..and was looking for her first...NOT SO!!..Her three children were illegitimate!!!!

SARAH ANN GERRARD wasbaptised at Bradbourne 18.09.1859 the daughter of Samuel Gerrard and Sarah(nee Ensor who were married at Ballidon)..she is on Census 1861.1871.1881..lastly as sister of George and John....and aunt of three children Wilfred. Charlie and Ada
Gerorge Garrard was born 1853 and John 1856 Srah Ann 1859.
Samuel blackwell married sarah ann Gerrard (spinster!!!) 12.06.1892

Derek x

Hi Derek, great work on the Blackwells. Not sure how you keep all these queries current in your mind - monumental task that's for sure.

re Mr. Blackwell, lots of info there to add. Many thanks. Hope that info will also be useful to Annina. I'm sure a widower with three children was more than happy to find a mother for them, and Sarah a father for her three children by an "unknown"!!

Now if we could just find a "branch" for Srah's father. With your help on the mother Mary, I tracked down the lineage of all - brothers and sisters and their lines, but still wonder about the bible death date of the Joseph Gerrard of 26 Mar 1887 and it not fitting with Mary's widow status on the census.

We have a trip to England planned for spring, with the intention of presenting the full tree to my cousin, who did not realize how convoluted his parentage really is!!!! Will certainly mention your name as being integral to the success of this project.

Many thanks,
Diane

,Hi Derek, nice to hear from you.

I havn't come across this particular Sam Blackwell yet,but I am willing to bet that if we go back far enough his family are related to my Eyam Blackwells.

It is all in the name,they all have a Samuel and George and Ann along with Hannah,Joseph, Peter, Elizabeth..........

I have found offshots in Dronfield, Sheffield, Bolsover, Workington, and the latest, a living rellie on the shores of Loch Lomond. Oh, and one had two brief tries at making his fortune in the states.

That is not to forget the ones who stayed nearer to home but far enough not to be on Eyam Parish Records

To Diane and Annina.further to my earlier posting.......I think i now have the full story.........The SAMUEL BLACKWELL who married both Hannah Brailsford and Sarah Ann Gerrard..was born and baptised in PARWICH near Ashbourne..........not EYAM......the children of both marriages add up and there is in my mind no doubt of his parents:

George and Ann Blackwell..
edit 21.37..I have Parwich censuses and several Monumental Inscriotions in the Parwich Graveyard..mor tomorrow xx
Derek

Information for both Diane and Annina from the BRADBOURNE Registers


The Bradbourne BLackwells were as follows.

Baptisms:

07.08.1842 Richard son of Geroge and Ann
06.04.1845 George son of George and Ann

17.01.1876 Ann daughter of Samuel and Hannah (born 23.11.1875)
17.05.1874 Mary daughter of Samuel and hannah (born 23.03.1874)
07.07.1878 son of Samuel and Hannah (born 14.04.1

Samuel Blackwell married HANNAH BRAILSFORD 14.08.1873

Derek

Hi Derek and Annina, my apologies to all. Have been away for too long as my computer died of old age. Lucky for me, I had spent coniderable monies many years ago on tuition for my son re computers ... and it has come back in spades. He rebuilt my entire machine! However, it is so frustrating that now I must "repopulate" the whole thing.

re the Blackwells you are researching, if Derek doesn't mind ... Sam was from the Bradbourne area and married my Sarah Gerrard, of whom Derek was very kindly researching my brick wall on her father. Their children were Elsie, Pamela and John.

Sam was previously married to a Hannah from 1850 to c1891, with children Mary, Ann and Samuel.

I hadn't had time to research his parentage before the "crash" .

Best wishes to all,
Diane

Derek ... you are a 'shocker' (Ozi Slang), but nice and very helpfull.. and I promise not to tell anyone....

I am off to Noosa for 2 weeks, to have fun in the sun... sorry , I know you guys are having a reallllyyyyy cold winter, and we are having a realllllyyyyy humid hot summer.

I still look at my GR web site while away, in case some vital info comes to light.....

Tks for all your help..

Cheers
karen of Brisbane

Karen..including a reverend and Alderman.........just to show my class and Anglo-Saxon history expertise.Alderman.....from Ealdorman..8th century England..meaning Head Honcho!!! lol........that's where i got my love for history from.......I did Anglo-Saxon Art and Archaology at University...as part of my English Degree........this is purely personal information..not to be passed on!! heeheeheeheee............................................

Derek.