Genealogy Chat

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the further info and the details and opening times of the Stafford Record office. I live in Leics now so I'm going to gather my other Stafford queries and do as you suggest and visit Stafford in the next few weeks - will let you know how I get on.

Now about the Parish Community Chest which I hadn't heard of before - I presume records would kept of who was assisted and would they be held at the Records Office as well?

I was nearby in Wigston today so visited the On the Road travellers exhibition there - very interesting. I met a lady there who told me of the pattern of travel of her traveller ancestors, all interesting stuff and helps build the big picture. She told me about her family visiting the big houses for work and reminded me that I'd been told that great grandma (George Henry Holland's wife) used to visit the big houses to mend umbrellas and parasols. What I wasn't told as a child was that she may well have had sprigs of heather/pegs with her!

Thanks again for your time and trouble.

Ann
xx

Greeting’s again. ……. Ann.

Have done a bit of digging about & found this site
Which has the Census returns for Gypsies 1841 ~ 1901
I have not gone right through it but you might just strike lucky :~

http://www.geocities.com/seraphim_angel_2002/Gypsyindex.html

With reference to the Parish Community Chest
This is known better under the heading of
“ The Poor Law “
I know Leicester Records Office has this Disc But I too have a copy of it
I’m not sure if Staffordshire has one though.

Poor Law examples from the Disc :~


Holland Hannah 1832 Removal Order Ashby de la Zouch 432/2/214 Removed to
Derby All Saints
Holland James 1808 Removal Order Loughborough 1834/4/20
Removed to Melbourne Derbyshire
Holland Christian 1735 Removal Order Ashby de la Zouch 432/2/107
Removed to
Tamworth Staffordshire

I’m glad you managed to see the exhibition at the Records Office.
I found it very interesting but did you see last years Exhibition ?
This had examples of the handy crafts they did
From clothes pegs to tin tankards all made from scrap metal
Plus many more archives relating to their way of life.

MIKE. xx

Cut & Pasted from Part Sixteen :~
Pamela

Request review
Today 13th. August. at 22:32
Looking for Burdett, Mansfield, Chapman Rodwell and Holwell in Leicester.

Anyone out there looking for the same?
Pamela

MIKE.

Greeting’s again. ……… Ann.

I’m not sure if you had time to do any searching the Records when you popped into see that exhibition

YES the Records Office did have Parish registers for Blackfordby.

So……. just to confirm Parish details :~

Fiche No. D E. 4207. / 1. 1 pf 4 fiches.

BAPTISMS ANNO DOMINI 1861.

Page. No. 20.
Entry No.157.
23rd. June. 1861.

George Henry.
Son of Henry & Sarah Holland.
Blackfordby ( Crossed out )
Ashby Wolds ( below the crossing out.)
Traveling Brazier.
R. Strony. Curate.

Entry No. 158 Same date.

Edwin ? ( not to clear )
Of Thomas & Bethie Smith ? ( again not too clear.)
Ashby Wolds
Traveling Brazier.
R. Strony. Curate.

NO other Holland events found for Five years either side of 1861.

Sorry…..

Good luck with Staffordshire Records Office.

MIKE. xx

(¯`*•.¸ (¯`*•.¸F.A.O. KAREN O’ BRISBANE ¸.•*¨) ¸.•*¨)


Just to say I’m still looking for your marriage
either Loughborough of Melton Mowbray c 1788…….

MIKE.xx

(¯`*•.¸ (¯`*•.¸F.A.O. FRAZZLED …….¸.•*¨) ¸.•*¨)

Have you had any luck yet with :~ re price of shoes c 1760. ?

I’ve enlisted the help of the Records Office to see if they can come up with a price…….

But one idea they floated was may be that in the year 1760
Thomas would not be on a wage but on a commission ?
Has he was a servant then he would have Lodgings and Food taken out his pay packet ?

MIKE.xx

Hi Mike,

Tks so much for your continued help....

Cheers
Karen

nudge

Hi Mike,

Hope you can help me great grandfather Edwin Neal born 1840 (got the Certificate) his father James a Tailor and mother Emmily (Emily) cannot find them on 1841 census, think I found her and Edwin and siblings in 1851, so James probably died late 1840's.
Supposed to have had a Shop in Leicester so, have tried all the spellings I can think of, Neal,Neale,Neall,
Neele, Nail etc, But no luck so far. Edwin no problem but James seems very elusive.

Thanks Sue

Greeting’s Sue…….

Is this the Family you are seeking information on ? :~

1851. Census returns HO 107 / 2088 / 100. / 25.
No. 18 Calais Street.

EMILY Neale Head Widow Aged. 45 F Brace Hand Lei Mkt.Harboro'
EMILY Neale Dau U Aged. 21 F Hosiery Mender Nott Nottingham
EDWIN Neale Son Aged. 11 M Errand Boy Lei Smgt
ANNE Neale Dau Aged. 8 F Lei Smgt
CHARLES Neale Son Aged. 5 M Scholar Lei Smgt
ARTHUR Neale Son Aged. 3 M Lei Smgt

St. Margaret’s Parish Baptisms :~

22-May 1829 Emily Neale James & Emily
20-Jun 1849 Annie Neale James & Emily
20-Jun 1849 Arthur Neale James & Emily
20-Jun 1849 Charles Neale James & Emily

Looks like something was happening around 1849
Why the multi Baptisms ?
And where’s Edwin ?
Is there an address on your Birth certificate for Edwin ?
This would help in pin pointing location for 1841 census returns

I’ve trawled the Burials for James within the Borough But NO luck….

MIKE.

Hi Mike, I am impressed, yes that is the Census entry I found , but I thought it said Calais Street.
Address on birth Certiciate for Edwin in 1840 is Chatham Street, and on his Marriage Certiciate in 1859 it says The Barracks, as he was a Bombadier in the Royal Artillery. I found a James Neal Tailor in Granby Street in W. White's Directory for 1846.
So how many times was Emily christened then, very strange. I do appreciate your help. Hoping to get up to Leicester some time, but it is a long way from Hampshire.

Thanks Sue.

Hello Mike

No luck with the price of shoes yet but found this about apprentices which might be of interest to others as well

http://www.berksfhs.org.uk/journal/Dec2002/ApprenticeshipDocuments.htm

The Statute of Artificers (1563) was an Act of Parliament which made it illegal to practise any craft without having served an apprenticeship of seven years, and it remained in force until 1814.

The 1765 indenture of Richard Smith of Whitchurch, Oxfordshire, to Catharine Warner of Pangbourne, barge builder, for instance, includes the promise that ‘The Goods of his said Mistriss he shall not waste, nor the same without Licence of her to any give or lend. Hurt to his said Mistriss he shall not do, cause or procure to be done; he shall neither buy nor sell without his Mistress’s Licence. Taverns, Inns, or Alehouses he shall not haunt. At Cards, Dice, Tables, or any other unlawful Game, he shall not play.’5 Indentures usually included these kinds of restrictions on the apprentice’s behaviour, although they were usually framed in rather less colourful language; another standard provision forbade the apprentice to marry. A child was usually placed at the age of 14 and would thus normally achieve legal adulthood at 21 about the time his apprenticeship ended

The vast majority of apprenticeships were privately arranged betweenthe child’s family and the prospective master. The master was indeed often a relative or friend of the child’s parents. The master was paid a cash premium by the child’s family, in return for which he or she undertook to train the child in the relevant profession and to maintain him or her during the apprenticeship. The amount paid varied, depending on the trade to be learnt. The apprentice was not normally paid any wage during his apprenticeship, receiving only bed and board. The vast majority of apprentices were boys, girls being more likely to work in the same households as servants — also given bed and board, but hired by the year and paid a wage.

There is also information about indentures being given to pauper children.

Will keep looking re wages and price of shoes!

Caroline xx

Hi Mike,

Thanks for checking the parish records and confirming the details of George Henry Holland's entry.

Also many thanks for the gypsy site address you gave me recently. I checked this and although I didn't find Henry Holland or his son George Henry Holland, there was a Holland family I had seen on the 1881 census at Great Barr, Staffs and it may be worth me pursuing a bit of research on that.

As per my previous note, I'll let you know how I get on at the Stafford record office - in the meantime, must get back up those steps with the paintbrush!

Many thanks.

Ann
xx

Greeting’s again Sue……..

St. Margaret’s Parish Baptisms Registers Read thus :~

Fiche 24D65. / B4…3rd. of 9 fiches.

Page.147.

BAPTISMS ANNO DOMINI. :~ 1829.

Entry. No’ 1169.
May. 22nd.
Emily. Daughter of James & Emily NEALE.
A Tailor by trade.
Wheat Street.
Ralph Chillow. Curate.

Fiche No’ 24D65. / B6. .......4th. Of 7 fiches.
Page.193.

BAPTISMS ANNO DOMINI. :~ 1849.

20th. June..
Entry No’ 1540.
Annie. ( in Left hand margin. …. Born 1843. )
Daughter of James & Emily NEALE.
A Tailor by trade.

Entry. No’ 1541.
Charles. ( In left hand Margin Born 1845. )
Son of James & Emily NEALE.
A Tailor by trade.

Entry. No’ 1542.
Arthur. ( in Left hand margin. Born 1848.)
Son of James & Emily NEALE.
A Tailor by trade.

All the three above have the address of
Chatham Street,

Ralph Chillow. Curate

Re Trade Directories. :~

Looked at the Original Directories to find out where James & Emily
were in 1841. in the hope it would help…….

James did not appear in any of the Directories
Until 1846…..46, Granby Street.

Tailors :~
1840. 41,42,43 = John Neale. London Road.

1842.....= Richard Neale. Wharf Street.
William Neale. Commissioner of wool agent.
27, Albion Street ( round corner from Calais Street.)

1843......= William Neale. Calais Hill.

Trawled Census returns for an area around Calais Street last night .
But did not spot James or family.

So we have :~
1829. = Wheat Street.
1840. = Chatham Street.
1846. = Granby Street.
1849. = Chatham Street.

Cor… He got around a bit. !!!

Going on the above Directories just wonder. …….
If James did not go into business for himself until that 1846 entry
and before that he worked within the household of someone else ?
and so might not have been included in the Census returns.

I see that there was a Public House Named
“ The Tailors Arms” in Chatham Street. …….

MIKE.

(¯`*•.¸ (¯`*•.¸F.A.O. ELAINE ¸.•*¨) ¸.•*¨)

If your still with us ? ....lol :0)))

RE:~ WARDS…………. POLICE CONSTABLES.


Whilst trawling those Trade Directories spotted these :~

1842.:~
P.C.31. ….Thomas Ward……Devonshire Street. ( Back of St. Margaret's Church )

P.C.38…… George Ward…..Church Gate.

1843.:~
P.C.31. ….Thomas Ward……Devonshire Street.

P.C.38……. G. Ward…..Butts Close Lane.

MIKE. xxx

don't know if its been mentioned before but i heard on radio leicester that st margarets got quite badly damaged by vandal(s) a few months ago although they have got quite alot of it fixed now there is still quite abit to do like the organ and stained glass.

It also said they are having guided tours round st margarets as part of the castle park festival

(¯`*•.¸ (¯`*•.¸F.A.O….JOHN O’ KENT ¸.•*¨) ¸.•*¨)


Greeting’s M’ old Mucker……..lol :0))))

Just posted this on another site
Is the Curate one of yours ?

St. Margaret’s Parish Church. Leicester

24D65. / C. 4. 6 of 7 Fiches.

Page. No’ 307.
BURIALS ANNO DOMINI :~ 1845.

Entry No’ 2451.
13th. June. 4th. Sunday in Trinity.

Sarah Ann. Daughter of Joseph & Elizabeth KILNER.

Lewin Street.
Infant.

William James TOMKINS .Curate.

MIKE.

Hi Mike

Thanks so much for that info. I have a couple of other possible leads I wonder if you could check some time. Both from Family Search.

Marriage of Emily Foster to James Neall 27th July 1828 St. Margaret Leicester it says Batch No M034611 1754-1837 Source call no 0596718

Christening of James Neal 24th Feb 1836 St. George Leicester parents James Neal and Emily.
Batch No C059811 1827-1836 source call no 0590955

Not sure if these are the numbers that help. Just think it seems odd they had such a long gap between Emily born 1829 and Edwin 1840. So maybe James born and died in that time.

Really hope the marriage is them. Otherwise I really do not know how I am going to get back any further.

Thanks again

Sue

Hi Mike

Still here, been searching some avenues with very little success, don't think you want any more conundrums at the moment. Thanks for PC 38, only had the Butts Close entry.

Am a year older this weekend and am off to the tea shop on the canal whether it rains or not!!!
Elaine

Greeting’s again. ……… Elaine.

Was not that P C 31.Thomas part of the clan then. ?

Ummm…….
Best put the Fire Brigade on stand by over the weekend then…lol 0)))))

But there again there well not be a shortage of water at “ King’s Mill Lock “

If your really suck with your searches then ask…..

MIKE. xxx ….<3 iiiiiii ~

TRAFFIC REPORT.

Do not forget that Upperton Road is closed
from the Canal to Narborough Road
Due to the fitting of a new bridge over the river Soar.
and connecting up the new roads

But Middleton Street Aylestone is OK to use to get to the Car Park.

But allow extra time ....City are playing at home Saturday. ....

(¯`*•.¸ (¯`*•.¸F.A.O………FRAZZLED…. ¸.•*¨) ¸.•*¨)

Greeting’s ……

I finally collared the top Man at the Records Office today. 21.08.08.
Non other than the “ Head of Archives”… Only the best for you. ……

Re:~ Price of shoes or should we say Boots .....c 1760…….

Blow off the dust & rummaged through several old books……..

He same up with a rough price of 3/6d. up to 7/6d.
Depending on the quality of the leather

Which equates to £20 ~ £40. in to days money.

But he pointed out that in those days people would have had their shoes mended several times before they had to buy a new pair……

With regards to the average wage in 1760……………………

“ The Jury is still out”……. on that one.

MIKE.xx……… Your on the spot Reporter…..lol :0))))