Genealogy Chat

Jill in East Kent

Don't know about your first point.

Child no 6 (of 15!) was Manning as mmn, however child no 5 had Vallance.

My wife has a marriage certificate for Young and Manning. However there is a family theory that Manning died and Vallance just stepped into her shoes. However she's not having any luck finding a death record.

Just had another thought. Which child is the one with Manning as mmn? Was he/she first or last?

Is it possible that dad had an "affair" with the Manning woman and they therefore lied about their marital status? What do the addresses show?

Just thinking aloud here ...

Is it possible that Elizabeth grew up thinking that her father was, say, Vallance only to find out in later life that her real father was Manning? (or vice versa of course)

Reggie/Margaret

That's the same information that I have. However my father in law's birth certificate has the mother as Elizabeth Amy Young (nee Vallance) and father Thomas Young. He is one if 15 children and all those who's BMD entries show the mother's maiden name have Vallance except for one who has Manning.

Now you can see why we are confused. We will persevere, but thanks again.

And death?

Name: Elizabeth Caroline Vallance
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Year of Registration: 1895
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 14
District: St Olave Southwark (1837-1901)
County: London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 145

Reg

Is this Elizabeth's birth?

Name: Elizabeth Caroline Vallance
Year of Registration: 1881
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: St Olave Southwark (1837-1901)
County: London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 245

Reg

Is this the marriage reg'n you are querying?


Marriages Dec 1898 (>99%)

EELES Rose Croydon 2a 617
MANNING Elizabeth Amy Croydon 2a 617
MARTIN William Croydon 2a 617
Young Thomas Croydon 2a 617

Is this 1901?

Name: Elizabeth A Young
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Thomas
Gender: Female
Where born: London, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Croydon
Ecclesiastical parish: St Saviour
Town: Croydon
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: Croydon
Sub-registration district: Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: 57
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 34
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth A Young 20
Thomas Young 23

Why would her birthplace be listed as Middlesex? Bermondsey was in Surrey...........

Reg

For info......1881

Name: Elizabeth Vallance
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Robert W.
Mother's Name: Sarah J.
Gender: Female
Where born: Bdsey, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Bermondsey
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 3 Bridge St

Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: St Mary Magdalen
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Littlepage 60
Alice E. Vallance 2
Arthur J. Vallance 8
Edwin Vallance 11
Elizabeth Vallance
Frederick J. Vallance 10
Robert W. Vallance 36
Robert W. Vallance 13
Sarah J. Vallance 33

AND 1891............

Name: Alice Vallance
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Robert W
Mother's Name: Annie
Gender: Female
Where born: Bermondsey, London, England

Civil Parish: Bermondsey
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: St James Bermondsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Lamb 23
Alice Vallance 12
Anne Vallance 10 months
Annie Vallance 40
Arthur Vallance 18
Eliza Vallance 10
Fredk Vallance 20
Robert Vallance 23
Robert W Vallance 46

Reg

Which is the marriage reg'n to which you refer?

Do you have birth certs for any children of the couple?

Thanks for all your help - and ideas! I'm trying everything I can think of.

Reggie - the groom is Thomas Young and the bride Elizabeth Vallance. Thomas was born in 1877 in Beddington. The bride is Elizabeth Vallance born 1880 in Bermondsey. Both appear on the respective 1881 census and then as a married couple on the 1901 census.

I know her mother didn't remarry as she died in 1886.

If both parties were illiterate then its how the name sounded and the spelling is then down to the interpretation by the vicar.

for instance i have a cert from the late 1870,s were groom is spelt Darter s/b Dartnell. and bride is spelt Etterley and s/b Hetreley both parties signed with an X so wouldn't have been aware of wrong spellings, I know its correct cos the grooms father is written correctly and with the right occupation.
I have too the couple on the next census's living in the same area . and the birth cert of one of their children

Groom was from SE London and married in Medway area of Kent so accents probably played a part

Perhaps you could give us the details..........another pair of eyes might help

Can you find the ' bride' in a census before and after marriage?
Do they match information given?

Gwyn

Maybe her mother remarried and she used that name

Dee x

Girls could get married at 12 in those days (with parental consent).

Kath. x

I don't think so as she was only about 18 or 19 at the time

She'd been married before?

Does anyone know if it was easy to give a different name when you got married in the 1890's?

I'm trying to find a marriage - got a groom but no matching bride! The forenames are correct but the surname is different.

Any ideas anyone?