Genealogy Chat

I have Carney/Kearney links in Glasgow through the 1915 marriage of John O'hara and Mary Cairney
The Cairney family were living at 9 Newton Street Partick in the 1901 census
Marys parents were John Cairney and Isabella McCalpine
I have been told by a grandaughter of Mary Cairney that the family name was Kearney in Ireland

Betty,

I've put an addendum to my earlier post. I had a look at the 1881 SCT census, and the names Tounes, Townes, Touns do not occur, but there are abt 220 Towns. I'ld presume you've got a variant spelling of Towns on your Nich's d rego.

Hi Betty, that's a downer, I thought I'd made a discovery! Ah well, back to the drawing board.

Duncan

Hi Duncan,

Thanks for your help with the Ancestry post, I know Maggie really well as we have both had such a pain with these Carney's and tried to help one another, although she has had a bit more luck than me in finding her family, they were brothers of Nicholas and as she said all hairdressers as he was.

Betty

Hi mgny,

I hope this isn't going to complicate things even more but when Nicholas Carney the father of my Mary Carney died in Deninstoun area of Glasgow on 24/09/1911 aged 57 his parents are listed as Nicholas Carney steamboat stoker and his mother was Margaret Ann and what looks like maiden name Tounes but it could be Townes!!

Betty

Surely this can't be a co-incidence, look what I've come across on Ancestry - surely this has to be your Nicholas?

If you don't have Ancestry I will be happy to try and contact this person on your behalf.

Duncan

Carney from Belfast,N Ireland
Replies: 0
Carney from Belfast,N Ireland
celticmoon522000 (View posts) Posted: 26 Sep 2007 4:03PM

Classification: Query
Surnames: Carney/Kearney
Need any info on a William, Nicholas, Thomas, Richard Carney, most were hairdressers in 1870- 1900 or later, had a shop in Smithfield (Belfast) at 21-24-25 Smithfield for many many years, Catholic family,also spell name Kearney at times. Any info is welcomed. Thanks, Maggie

nudge

So lets see if I've got this straight.
Nich d 1911 a=57 was b abt 1854 and is a=7 in 1861, and appears on Christina's census, with bro Peter a=4 b abt 1857 + parents Nich (b abt 1820) + Margt Carney MS Williams (b abt 1827).
Peter reappears in Betty's 1881 census a=25 (so 1 year off) with bro Rich a=17 b abt 1864 + mother Margt Carney MS Williams (b abt 1829) so 2 years off.
Rich reappears in Betty's 1891 census a=26 (so 1 year off) + mother Margt Carney MS Williams (b abt 1840) so 13 years off 1st age.
Rich has an 1864 Belfast b rego (per Big Shaz) giving parents as Nich + Margt Carney MS Williams.

Nicholas would have been a=79 in 1934, so a wife Margt Kearney MS Kennedy a few years younger would be quite normal, although since they got marr 1875 with Nich a=abt 21, so not too much younger - which implies Margt's d rego misstates her age by a few years, guess she was abt 75 not 70.


What I'ld want to see now is Nich's d rego to check his parents, and the 1891 census image to see if Margt's supposed a=51 was transcribed correctly.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

The above needs to be editted so Margt Carney MS Williams is renamed as Margt Carney MS Townes, and Richard's Belfast b rego should be deleted as irrelevant to this family.

Hi Betty,

There has to be a chance that Nicholas was outside the UK in 1901, so does this look a possibility on the passenger lists?

I think I need more practice at this copying and pasting!!! But 1854 is the year of birth, 1892 is the year of travel.

Duncan

Last
name First
name Year of
birth Sex Year of
departure Departure
port Destination
country Destination
port Transcript Image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CARNEY Nicholas 1854 M 1892 Londonderry USA New York VIEW VIEW

Hi Betty,

I'm a bit confused here, but does this look like your Margaret? Born in Ireland in 1863, living in Govan, Glasgow in 1901?

Duncan

Name: Margaret Carney
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Sligo, Ireland
Registration Number: 644/14A
Registration district: Kinning Park Landward
Civil Parish: Glasgow Govan
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 96 West Scotland St
Occupation: Greengrocer
ED: 21
Page: 17 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 80
Line: 8
Roll: CSSCT1901_323
Household Members: Name Age
Annie Carney 30
Margaret Carney 38
Mary Carney 36
John Martin 13


Unfortunately, we are unable to display the accompanying images of this census at present, despite extensive negotiation with the General Register Office for Scotland. Permission from them has not, as yet, been forthcoming. For this reason, and to enable you to continue with your family history research, Ancestry has heavily transcribed the Scottish Census records to ensure you have access to all key areas of information contained within this collection.

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Source Citation: Parish: Glasgow Govan; ED: 21; Line: 8; Year: 1901.

Source Information:

Ancestry.com. 1901 Scotland Census [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: The Generations Network, Inc., 2007. Original data: Scotland. 1901 Scotland Census. Reels 1-446. General Register Office for Scotland, Edinburgh, Scotland.

Description:
The 1901 Census for Scotland was taken on the night of 31 March/1 April 1901. The following information was requested: place, name, relationship to head of family, marital status, age, gender, profession, birthplace, and whether blind, deaf, and dumb. Learn more...
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n

Dont worry Betty - sometimes we all get a bit carried away when we are on a wave of excitement with new info!

At least now you've got some of it sorted out now!

x

Ok everyone I got the two Nicholas Carney's all mixed up sorry, sorry, sorry to everyone who tried to help!!!, I think I just got carried away after finding the irish marriage and the births of Mary and Catherine.
I am changeing my name to Dumb and Dumber!!

Betty

I agree with Sylvia - I think it is pretty certain that the Nicholas and Margaret who were the parents of William were the second generation - that Nicholas is the son of the Nicholas and Margaret found in 1861.

Betty - its probably best if you print out everything from the threads and mull it over - you will notice how Nicholas juniors year of birth matches with his age at death and that Nicholas junior's wife Margaret will match the death in 1934.

That Nicholas senior and Margaret senior are the generation back - and therefore Margaret senior is your William's grandmother - not mother!

x

Bump for Betty.

I still say the Margaret Carney who died in Dundee in 1934 at the age of 70 is NOT the same Margaret Carney born in ca 1829 who is on the two censuses that you found and are insisting is yours


They are two different people.

I think Christina might well have a possible solution when she says

"It looks like this Nicholas, born in 1854, is the one who married Margaret Kennedy in 1875, meaning both his mother and his wife are called Margaret Carney.

At the time of the 1881/1891 censuses he would still be in Ireland with his wife Margaret, so the one you found in England is for his Mother and brothers."


It wouldn't be the first time that father and son had the same christian names, and married women with the same christian name and possibly even the same surname ....... all done of course to confuse us their descendants!!


I think you need to step back, take a longer look at ehat you have found and what everyone on this thread is saying to you, and stop being so insistent that the Margaret Carney on the two censuses is the same Margaret Carney who died in 1934.


William Carney who reported his mother's death might not have known her exact age ....... but he would for certain sure have known that she was well over 100. For one thing ..... it was much more unusual in those days to have reached the age of 100 and there would have been all kinds of celebrations, telegrams or eltters from the King, etc etc. No-one could have missed such a milestone!


sylvia

Hi Christina,

Thanks for all your help, its really appreciated!!

Betty

Hi Betty,

So she didn't die in Scotland. She was with Richard in 1891 in Scotland, so I thought she might still have been there when she died.

Maybe she went back to Ireland when Richard married Mary Ellen. From the info. you've found it looks like at least two of her sons were living in Belfast around that time.

I couldn't find anything that matches in England.

Christina.

Hi Christina,

The death of Margaret Carney in 1934 at the age of 70 was in Dundee.

Her husband is listed as Nicholas Carney hairdresser. The person who register the death was my grandfather and it is noted on the death details that he is the son-in-law.

I also did a search on Scotlands People for deaths of any Margaret Carney between 1891 and 1901 and these are all that came up:-


No Year Surname / Maiden Name Forename Mother's Surname Other Surnames Sex Age District City/County/MR GROS Data Image Extract
1 1892 CARNEY MARGARET F 0 CAMPSIE /STIRLING 475/00 0088 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
2 1893 CARNEY MARGARET F 0 AIRDRIE OR NEW MONKLAND /LANARK 651/01 0442 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
3 1893 CARNEY MARGARET F 3 DENNISTOUN GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/03 0905 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
4 1901 CARNEY MARGARET F 4 CALTON GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/04 0190 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER


Betty

Betty,

I think this is the marriage for the Margaret Carney you found on the 1881 & 1891 census.

Marriages Mar 1852 (>99%)

Carney Nicholas Liverpool 8b 440
Wiliams Margret Liverpool 8b 440
Williams Margret Liverpool 8b 440

Here they are on the 1861 census with their four sons Nicholas, Peter, Thomas & William.


1861 England Census
about Nichs Carney
Name: Nichs Carney
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Nicholas
Mother's Name: Margt
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool

Civil Parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthias
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 47
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 96
Household Members: Name Age
Margt Carney 34
Nicholas Carney 41
Nichs Carney 7
Peter Carney 4
Thos Carney 2
William Carney 14
Margt Deran 14
Hugh Mc Kenna 38

It looks like this Nicholas, born in 1854, is the one who married Margaret Kennedy in 1875, meaning both his mother and his wife are called Margaret Carney.

At the time of the 1881/1891 censuses he would still be in Ireland with his wife Margaret, so the one you found in England is for his Mother and brothers.

I can't find them in 1901, so perhaps they did not come over from Ireland until after the census was taken?

The older Margaret Carney, born c1827, does not show up in 1901. As she was 70+ by then she may well have died. Have you checked deaths in Scotland for a Margaret Carney 1891-1901?