Genealogy Chat

Hi Selena

This looks interesting for a possible death of your James Bateman, seeing as you have ordered a birth cert for Ann 1847 Bermondsey - I found this death entry for Bermondsey:

James Bateman
June qtr, 1849
Bermondsey vol 4 pg 8

Worth adding to your list of certs to order at some point if you haven't already?

Strangely, underneath that entry was another entry for a James Mexted Bateman, same year and district - but that's a very strange middle name and I'm not sure if this is just a mistranscription of something else. We know that your James didn't have that as a middle name, anyhow. So the first entry would be a safer bet I would say.

Must dash now - will be interested to see what transpires from all of this - and if once you get the cert through you are still stuck or unsure and want a 2nd opinion, feel free to PM me any time. Always glad to help if I can.

Take care - Athena

Many thanks Athena, I will give you an update when the certificate arrives.

Selena

Hello Athena and everyone. I received the certificate of Ann Bateman today.

b1847 Grange Road Bermonsey. Father James William John Bateman, mother Jane Louisa Bateman, formerly Johnson.

Father's profession Tinsman and Brazier (I think).

Its the right man but I don't know how this helps me at present. Maybe I'm not thinking clearly.

Any thoughts very welcome,

Selena


PS Do you think the following are two different people?

Deaths Jun 1849
Bateman James Bermondsey 4 8
Bateman James Mexted Bermondsey 4 1

Hi Selena

Just been refreshing my memory on this one. Thanks for updating us.

From the info on the birth cert, stating that James Bateman was a tinsman/brazier in 1847, I find it difficult to believe that this man became a waterman in the few years before he died. Watermen had to serve an apprenticeship, as mentioned previously. It doesn't really ring true, to me.

Could it possibly be that the marriage cert you have for a William Bateman stating his father was William James Bateman a Waterman, be the wrong cert for your family?

I'd like to help you with this, if possible, but I think I'd need to start further up the branch and see what info you have going backwards from 1901 and what the connection is to that family, just to ensure that you've not somehow got two different families mixed up onto your tree.

The offer is there if you'd like me to have a look over it all for you. If you want to do this via PM's, that's fine with me.

Regards - Athena

Athena many thanks for the offer of help, its really appreciated. You may regret it though, understandably!

I am posting everything I have, will do it in two or three chunks. I would appreciate a second pair of eyes.

Selena


Hope

1901 Hosier Street, Deptford
Charles W Bateman, head, 35 born Deptford
Caroline, wife, 29
Annie, dau 9
Alice, dau 9 months?
Jessie, 3
Louisa, age 1

1891 Brightfield Rd, Lee, Lewisham
Charles Bateman, head, 24? labourer, born Deptford
Caroline, wife, 21 charwoman, born Sutton Surrey
Annie, dau 5 months, born Lee Kent

1888 Marriage Cert Charles Bateman (22) to Caroline Charlotte Shell (19) Deptford, his father William Bateman deceased Labourer

1881 Deptford
Charles Baleman (mistranscribed) 14 Deptford
Charles Bromley, widow, 29 (this is his widowed Stepfather)
Etc

1880 Death Cert of Frances Bromley, Deptford, Age 33, wife of Charles Bromley

1879 marriage cert Frances Bateman (widow) to Charles Bromley (one witness is R. Ranoe) you will see R Ranoe is her step father in law on previous marriage.

1871 Deptford
Frances Bateman, 29, widow head, Deptford
Richard, 5
Charles 3

1870 death cert Deptford, William Bateman, age 35, Bricklayers labourer. Informant Jane Ranoe. (this is his mother born Jane Louisa Johnson, she remarried – see below)

1870 death cert Deptford, Frances Ann Bateman, daughter of William Bateman bricklayers labourer, informant Jane Ranoe

1865 birth cert Richard James Bateman, Deptford, father William James Bateman bricklayers Labourer, mother Frances Bateman formerly Perkins.

1867 birth cert Charles BAITMAN, Hackney, father William James Baitman (bricklayer), mother Frances Baitman, formerly Perkins,

1861 Collier Street, Deptford
William Bateman, head, 28? Bricklayers labourer, born Southwhark
Frances, wife, 20, born Deptford
Frances A, dau, 21 months?

1861 Above them (next door) is Frances’ mother and family
Ann Perkins, widow
Harriet, dau, 12
James, son, 10
William, son 8

Marriage cert Nov 1859 Deptford William James Bateman to Frances Perkins, full age, Willliam is a labourer, his father is William James Bateman, Waterman

1851 Essex Place, Rotherhithe?
Jane Bateman, head, widow, 40 charwoman, born Surrey St Olaves
William, son, 15 born St Olaves, deaf
Maria, daug 8,
Ann, dau, 3

1851 above them (next door) her future husband
Sarah Ranoe, head, widow, 62, born Greenwich,
Richard, son, 26, labourour, born Lewisham

April 1851 Marriage cert of Richard Ranoe (batchelor) and Jane Louisa Bateman (widow) her father Richard Johnson (book/bark cutter)

1847 birth cert of Ann Bateman, father James William John Bateman, tinsman and Braziar, mother Jane Louisa Bateman, formally Johnson

1841 Maria Street, Shoreditch Tower Hamlets
William Bateman, 20, printer
Jane, 25
William 3
James 1
Next door Samuel E Bateman and Charlotte (connection unknown)

1834 marriage on IGI James William John Bateman to Jane Louisa Johnson as previously mentioned. Another kind member looked this up at LMA, witness was Richard Johnson.

IGI birth Jane Louisa Johnson Jul 1810, parents Richard & Mary Johnson

1881 Jane Ranoe (mistranscribed), formerly Bateman, born Johnson. With her 2nd husband.

Richard RANVE Head M Male 58 Blackheath, Kent, England Smiths Hammerman
Jane L. RANVE Wife M Female 60 London City Of, London, Middlesex, England Nurse
Richard RANVE Son M Male 29 Blackheath, Kent, England Farrier
Priscilla GREGORY Grandaur Female 15 Deptford, Kent, England Domestic Servant

Priscilla is the daughter of Maria Bateman and Jesse Gregory. Maria is on the 1851 age 8.

Here is Jane on the 1861 with her 2nd husband. Her daughters Annie and Maria have taken their stepfather's surname
Annie Ranoe abt 1847 Bermondsey, Surrey, England Daughter Deptford St Paul Kent
>>Jane Ranoe abt 1822 London City Wife Deptford St Paul Kent
John Ranoe abt 1854 Greenwich, Kent, England Son Deptford St Paul Kent
Maria Ranoe abt 1843 Bermondsey, Surrey, England Daughter Deptford St Paul Kent
Richard Ranoe abt 1826 Lewisham, Kent, England Head Deptford St Paul Kent
Richard Ranoe abt 1852 Greenwich, Kent, England Son Deptford St Paul Kent

In connection to the Urquhart christening you found:

MARTHA BATEMAN URQUHART
marriages
Spouse: WILLIAM MARK WILLSON Family
Marriage: 09 DEC 1834 Saint Dunstan, Stepney, London, England

Hi Selena

Wow - a lot of info you have there - well done in getting thus far!
I am off home in 10 mins so will have a proper read through it all tomorrow and give you any thoughts I have on it.

One thing I wanted to ask (I haven't had time to check the census images for myself) - on the census pages for William Bateman does it list him as deaf throughout them all?

I know we have the 1851 entry showing a William Bateman as deaf - just wanting to make sure that the William who married Frances is the same chap and not a cousin.

I have been wondering if there were two Williams one with a father named James William, the other with a father William James.

As I said, I've not had time to read and digest all of this so I could be wrong. Will get back to you tomorrow via PM.

Bye for now - Athena

Sorry about the mass of info. Was trying to cover all the info to avoid lots of questions to and fro.

Have sent a PM.

Thanks and regards,

Selena