Genealogy Chat

Can anyone find Eliza or her father Charles on the 1871 please?

Selena

This man is also born in Whitechapel, and could well be the one who married in the 1840s and had a daughter Jane.

His occupation is warehouseman - any connection to lighterman?

Name: Charles Royce
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Frances
Gender: Male
Where born: Whitechapel, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Stepney
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Mile End Old Town
Sub-registration district: Mile End Old Town Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: 21

Household schedule number: 72
Household Members:
Name Age
Benjn Royce 10
Charles Royce 45
Charles Royce 16
Edward Royce 14
Frances Royce 44
Jane Royce 12
Mary Royce 1
Matilda Royce 5
Robert Royce 8

Address 3 White Horse Court (off Mile End Rd)

- and the same man in 1871:

Name: Charles Royce
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Francis
Gender: Male
Where born: Whitechapel, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Mile End Old Town
Ecclesiastical parish: St Benet
Town: Mile End Old Town
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 31 Ernest St

Occupation: Wharf labourer

Registration district: Mile End Old Town
Sub-registration district: Mile End Old Town, Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: 33

Household schedule number: 30
Household Members:
Name Age
Benjamin Royce 19
Charles Royce 55
Charles Royce 27
Edward Royce 25
Francis Royce 56
Mary Royce 12
Matilda Royce 14
Robert Royce 17

That family in 1851:

Name: Charles Boyea
[Charles Boyce]
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1817
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Frances
Gender: Male
Where born: Whitechapel, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Mile End Old Town
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address: White Horse Lane West (follows on from houses on Ernest Street)

Occupation: Warehouseman

Registration district: Stepney
Sub-registration district: Mile End Old Town Lower
ED, institution, or vessel: 22

Household schedule number: 70
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Boyea 34
Charles Boyea 6
Edward Boyea 4
Frances Boyea 33
Jone Boyea 1

I'm struggling to track down an Eliza Royce. There is an orphan at the Industrial school in Penge in 1851, but she is already age 10. Looking at the span of the births of her children, it seems unlikely that she would be ten years older than stated.

I wonder if her mother wasn't married to Charles? If so, it may be that Eliza is enumerated under her mother's surname between 1851 and 1871. Charles seems to have stayed in much the same place over the years. Perhaps when Eliza suggested getting married, her mother decided that her father should walk her down the aisle? Or is that anachronistic?

Going back to the witnesses; Eliza looks a little young in 1881 to be the mother to all of Daniel's children. It may be that she was his second wife. There is a marriage between Daniel Tenison and Eliza Gill in the 1st qtr 1867 in Bethnal Green.

Hi Ivy,

Well done - it looks like you might have the correct Charles here!

I had noticed a marriage in 1844 -on the same page was a 'Francis Wetherley' - looks possible.

Also I note on the 1871 you have Charles as a Wharf labourer - well, a 'lighterman' was someone who worked on flat-bottom barges so you would have contact with these at a 'wharf'

Dea x

Re Daniel Tenison + 'his' Eliza - I believe he was previously married to a Mary - either Cullum or Hegarty in 1854 in Whitechapel.

Dea x

Hi everyone

You’re all been very busy while I have been away. After reading that Eliza could have been Jane Royce I check out a contact’s tree who had a Charles Royce born 1816 with a daughter called Jane. This was in her notes……..

Charles Royce 1816-1872 married to Frances Wetherley 1817-1876
Marriage: St Geo in the East 2 38 March 1844

Daughter: Jane Royce
Stepney 2 465 Jul-Sep 1849

Jane Royce was married to Charles Wood
Bethnal Green 1c 520 Sept 1867

Also in her notes it says that in the 1881 census Jane & Charles was living in Mile End near some of her brothers & sisters, where in the 1881 census my Eliza was living with her Joseph Bennett in George in the East.

Sorry I think we might be on the wrong track - any thoughts!!

Sylvia

Yep!!

That Jane is not 'your' Eliza - she is certainly with Charles Wood on 1871 + 1881.

It does not mean they are not connected though - I will look further.

Dea x

Hi all,

the Royce name is very distinctive, which is why I wondered whether Eliza is not using it before her marriage.

Sylvia, on a previous thread, you said you had checked out a birth registration for an Eliza Roysse - could you put the certificate details on here? Did you manage to match her to a different individual (in the way that you have for Jane Royce)?

Thanks Dea this is a right puzzle I appreciate all your help.

Sylvia

Hi Ivy

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983
about Eliza Roysse

Name: Eliza Roysse
Year of Registration: 1851
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Whitechapel
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 2
Page: 658

This the only information I have - I did check the image to make sure it was the right spelling.

Many thanks for your help

Sylvia

I'm going out now be back about 2.30 pm/3 pm

Sylvia

I believe the image actually says Eliza Royffe (Or Royffee)(following it alphabetically), although it is transctribed as Roysse.

There is a family with this name (Royffe)to follow on census's, though I can't yet link them to a Charles.

They are in Bethnel Green.


Also 2 children born Bethnel Green - William George 1845 and Mary Elizabeth 1854.

I can follow William George but not yet Mary Elizabeth.

William is with grandparents on 1861 - George + Elizabeth (transcribed RAYPPE)

Dea x

Hi Dea,

Thanks for the info on the Royffe items. Ancestry has quite a few references to Royffe(e). I wonder whether these are "f" sounding surnames or "s", since "ss" was often written as long ff?

OK, seen some Royffe births in the 1984 onwards birth registers - a tiny handful though - just 17, all in the Middlesex area (oops, my mistake, limited the search to Middlesex - what's the sign for "bashes hand on forehead"?)

[Edited - still just 28 Royf* over a period of 21 years in E&W]

Hi Dea,

Another possibility for the Eliza Roy*e registration in Dec 1851 could be Joseph and Caroline Royffe's child shown on the 1861 census as Clara. The enumerator's handwriting on the schedule is clear; but I wonder whether his rough notes were as clear? I cannot find any trace of Clara Roy* from the East End in Ancestry. [Edited having re-read your point on Mary Eliz* !]

I had a brief look at the children's names earlier. Joseph and Eliza only had two sons - the first was Joseph and the second (after seven other children) was George. Although Joseph Bennett's parents Joseph and (H)ellen had several boys (Joseph, John, Thomas, Richard), none of these seem to have been named George - so perhaps a name to look out for? On the other hand, you would expect them to use Charles, since this is Joseph's middle name and Eliza's father's name.

The eldest girl was named Eliza; then Mary Ann, Jane, Matilda and Kate - and the youngest is Susan. Jane, Matilda and Catherine are names of Joseph's sisters - does the Mary Ann come from Eliza's side of the family?

Have you checked out that watermen and lightermen site. You might find her baptism on there - even if there is no birth reg.

If she was baptised at St Mary Whitechapel - do check out IGI. St Mary Whitechapel was bombed in WW2 and the IGI seems to contain quite a lot of their records - not far how late they go but I know they go well beyond 1837.

Jill

Ivy

Just thinking on your line of thought could it be possible that they had a child name Charles who died at Birth? Looking at the BMD there are a few Charles Bennett's born between 1876 and before Joseph was born in 1888 who died as infants.

Sylvia