Genealogy Chat

Hi Gala, Glen,

No new info - just pulled together where the thread has got to so far:

MARIA RAMSBOTTOM (nee FICK)
Per 1891 census age 26 born in St.Georges,Shropshire – i.e. 1865
1891 census ref Class: RG12; Piece: 3406; Folio 16; Page 26
bet 1891 and 1901 on Isle of Man (see children’s births)
1901 census (RG13) lodging in Blackburn, but had been on IoM
1901 census ref: Class: RG13; Piece: 3906; Folio: 150; Page: 11
Per 1901 census age 39 born in Blackburn, Lancashire– i.e.1862
Per Sarah’s birth certificate, maiden name Fick
“…must have died around 1926”

Husband:

HENRY RAMSBOTTOM from Blackburn
m Jun 1888 Blackburn (Lancs RO/GRO have wife’s name as LEEK?)
“…born in Brinscall ,Lancs 1864”
Per 1891 census age 27
Per Sarah’s birth cert, cabinet maker

Children:

James (1 in1891, 11 in 1901) b Blackburn
Joseph (4m in 1891, 10 in 1901) b Blackburn
Henry (8 in 1901) b Isle of Man
Sarah (5 in 1901) b Isle of Man – birth certificate obtained

Hi Gala,

You say you have some details from RG11 - that is the 1881 census. Could you post the details on here?

Thanks for that Ivy, i joined in late and it was a struggle to piece it all together.

The only Sarah c1895 born on the Isle of Man with a mother called Maria in 1901 is the one i posted earlier.

It seems just more than co-incedence that the names Fick and Vick are similiar.

I'm just going to add the earlier census returns for the family i posted from 1901, even if it is just to discount them in the future;

1891 Isle of Man Census
about Maria Vick
Name: Maria Vick
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William
Gender: Female
Where born: German, Isle of Man, Isle of Man

Civil Parish: German
Ecclesiastical parish: German
Town: Rhoscolyn
County/Island: Isle of Man
Country: Isle of Man

Street address: View Image
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Isle of Man
Sub-registration district: A
ED, institution, or vessel: 3a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Stanley Garrett 11
Herbert Vick 7
John Vick 8
Margret Vick 3
Maria Vick 33
Milldread Vick 1
William Vick 46



Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 4682; Folio 88; Page 5; GSU roll: 6099792.

Image needs looking at closely, what is the maritl status of Maria?

1881 Isle of Man Census
about Maria Garrett
Name: Maria Garrett
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Charles
Gender: Female
Where born: German, Isle of Man, Isle of Man

Civil Parish: German
County/Island: Isle of Man
Country: Isle of Man

Street address: Ballahowin Mill & Houses
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Formerly Dom Serv

Registration district: Isle Of Man
Sub-registration district: A
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age

Wm. Stanley Corlett 1 *Grandson
Charles Garrett 60 *Head
Maria Garrett 24 *Daughter


Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 5596; Folio: 106; Page: 13; Line: ; GSU roll: 1342344.

Skippint 1871 for a moment

1861;

1861 Isle of Man Census
about Maria E Garret
Name: Maria E Garret
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Charles
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: German, Isle of Man, Isle of Man

Civil Parish or Township: German
County/Island: Isle of Man
Country: Isle of Man

Street address: View Image
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Anglesey
Sub-registration district: Holyhead
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 69
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Caine 40
Ann Garret 31
Charles Garret 35
Elizabeth Garret 6
Jane Garret 13
John S Garret 10
Maria E Garret 3


Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 4420; Folio: 63; Page: 16; GSU roll: 543280.


And a birth, right dad for the above


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


MARIA ELEANOR GARRETT Pedigree
Female


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 23 AUG 1857 Kirk German, Isle Of Man, England

Death:
Burial:


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Parents:
Father: CHARLES GARRETT
Mother: ELIZABETH MACFEE


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Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

Glen.
Sarah was Maria's daughter , she was my gran.
Sarah Ramsbottom born : 14th August 1895 to Henry Ramsbottom & Maria Fick : 5, Charles St, Peel . Isle of man.

I do have Sarah's birth certificate in which I abtained from the Isle of Man last Nov 2007, doing that , I thought I would have come across Maria's birth and place. There was nothing , only her names

Hi Ivy , Henry did leave Maria on the isle of Man with her 4 broods and many manx cat/kittens, I am sure he went of with another woman and MAYBE that's her "LEEK" , I don't know.
My mum will not tell me anything of the past :-(

I reckon there is something funny with this one, Ancestry has a couple of census entries where the name Maria Garrett has alternative names including Cannell and Corlett.

In each case either the mother or fathers' name match with the baptism i gave but not both on the same return.

There are a couple of reasons, either Maria and William split and she lived with someone else or possibly she had a bigamous marriage at some point.

I just can't discount the original 1901 i posted as there are no other matches for a Sarah born IOM with mother called Maria.

Glen

Glen.
You are thinking of what I'm thinking. ( bigomous marriage ) ??

I do have alot of skeletons in the closet from both of my parents :-((.
Well, I'm going over to the Isle of Man in a few months to look at Sarah's house where she was born and then call at the Isle of Man's registry office to find out something and then I will go on to 2 more registry offices in Shropshire and Blackburn before I head off home to the Scottish Borders .

would that be wise of me ?

Gala

Gala

All I can add is don't take what the census says as 100% true, my great great grandfather according to the
1871 was born In Wednesbury Staffordshire, 1881 Lancashire. He also stated he was a bachelor on the marriage cert to my great great grandmother when in fact his first wife died about 3 months before the marriage. One important thing to remember is all the information given is only as accurate as the person giving it wanted it to be

Hi Gala and Glen,

I'd be inclined to count Portland Rose's finding for the 1901 census in Blackburn.

There are two problems with it - firstly the relationship between the head of the household and Maria Ramsbottom (down as mother-in-law) - and secondly the way that Ancestry have reported the household.

Although the image is clearly James Haworth, his wife Susannah and their daughter Kate, followed by Maria Ramsbottom and her 4 children, Ancestry have reported all five children as being James and Susannah's offspring. If one assumes lodger rather than mother-in-law as the correct relationship, then this family are a good fit for Henry and Maria from 1891.

Have a look and see what you make of it...whether it should be discounted, or made more of than just a lodging arrangement?

(I did have a brief look for a marriage to check whether Susannah was a Fick, but there are a lot of Haworth marriages, and FreeBMD was too busy at that point - I found one Susannah, not a Fick, and left it at that).

Thanks for the infor Linda . seems like I'll pop off knowing nowt !
There must be a way of finding something ? eh !

Ma partner Tony had said that the given information are not ALL accurated . I agree with you

I cannae find ma mum's and ma birth dates on the tree .:-o

Gala

Ivy,
I do have that file and it's a mystery to me and Tony ( partner) as it saying the 5 kids are James and maria being M in L to him ??. Must be a huge mistake there by the registry people ? but they did live at 6 Addington St Bburn

I'll come back on later , doing the evening meal now
Cheers , Gala

I think it is safe to say that anything and everything you discover is worthwhile, even if you use it to discount someone then it is time well spent.

Glen

Glen, Thanks , we're going in our Bongo Mazda and Tony is a mountaineer . he want to go up Snefell mountain , I'll go up on the train and maybe walk down ,

It's cheaper to photocopy the certs. so I'm told .
CYA later
Gala

I'm find it hard to follow the thread now. Wonder if this is a relation, unfortunately doesn't give actual birth date:

MARY JANE VICK

Christening: 19 NOV 1869 Kirk German, Isle Of Man, England


Parents:
Father: WILLIAM VICK
Mother: ELIZABETH

Just a couple of thoughts.

Could we be looking at two different Marias? Their YOB and POB are different on the 1891 and 1901. Could the first Maria have died and Henry gone to the Isle of Man where he met a Maria Vick? Getting the birth cert of one of the older boys might show a different MMN. Also, could Mother in Law in 1901 be stepmother? We are used to seeing iin Law for step children.

As soon as I saw Fick, I thought Vick, Isle of Man (I have a friend with that surname whose ancestors were from the IOM).

Could the Welsh that your mother remembers have been Manx Gaelic? Having said that, the only Maria Vick birth I can find is in Cardiff and that Maria married in Cardiff.

Might be worth checking IOM BMDs for a marraige.