Find Ancestors

Hello everybody,specialy kb,lfw and hp.
thought you might like to know the outcome of all this
the way i see it anyhow
ann eliza b.c says parents joseph and elizabeth
i find ann eliza on census 1871 with joseph c1832[joiner and builder]
elizabeth nee williams c1832
both born mold flintshire north waes
mary e c1855 rhyl flintshire
sarah j c1858 west derby

AND

ROBERT T !! C1866 everton lancs

1871
have joseph and elizabeth
sarah j now married to andrew neilson SAILOR.
william r c1876
and robert t ..joiner..

SO ! by my powers of mis deduction i have decided this is the family of eer and that THOMAS lost the robert upon leaving home to become a mariner/ joiner/fireman.

which is why i coulnt find a birth for him that i was sure of.
thank you all for your time and help on this and now i can start on mary jennings again and cause more confusion.
the home made pear wine is ready and is VERYstrong so im treating you all to a glass or two ...bottoms up folks.
viviienne xx

catherine was age 87 in 1968 at time of death ..makes her 1881ish birth and mary was 23 at time of death makes her 1876ish birth

but its the roberts side im most interested in and any suggestions what i can do [other than unprintable ones]to find them other than annie mcdougall nee roberts b.c which im sending off for and hoping its the right one would help..thanks...

and also why are there so few welsh cristian names on the census,s? bmd,s etc ..did they just anglicise them to what they heard or just to make things easier for the goverment depts to read them?
vivienne

I'm forgetting what may have been figured out about Catherine ...


1881:


Name: Ellen Jennings
Age: 44
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address: 26 Hockenall Alley
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)
Occupation: Mangling

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: Dale Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 8

Catherine Jennings 13
Ellen Jennings 44
Mary Ann Jennings 8


Looks like an excellent candidate.


Unfortunately, it also looks a lot like this household in 1871:


James Crickard 30
James Dougherty 20
Catharine Jennings 3 - born Ireland
Ellen Jennings 39
James Jennings 9 months
Patrick Jennings 36
Thomas Jennings 32 - head, dock labourer


although the Ellens' ages are quite different.


I'm afraid you're going to find that the Jennings at least were recent arrivals from Ireland, and you won't find your girls in a household with Alexander in England.

Well thomas and marys m.c is here but it goes from bad to worse
21st dec 1897
thomas roberts 31 bachelor mariner
father ..joseph roberts .. joiner ..

mary jennings 22 spinster
father ..ALEXANDER jennings..painter..

in the presence of elias williams and mary ann fenner

and mary and thomas were both living at cases st ...

i can not find catherine jennings..1881

mary jennings 1875 alone or together with alex or with just a mother OR

annie eliza roberts 1862
thomas roberts 1866 with a joseph either

i would be eternally grateful for more help as im fit to put my head in the gas oven with this lot
vivienne

nope not the landscape gardener as ann on 1891 still at home [our ann married 1884 west derby and still happy ever after in 1901] with japheth as hes now become with a new wife as well but kids all present and correct.

1871:


Name: Ann Roberts
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Head
-- nonsense; it says "daughter", not "ditto"
-- daughter of Catherine Jones; Ancestry has put them in separate households
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Name: Catherine Jones
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Taltarnia (I can't read it either)
Occupation: Lodging House Keeper

Civil Parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St Anne
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: Islington
ED, institution, or vessel: 29
Household schedule number: 188


Just throwin' 'em out ...

Don't forget that there's always the option that the mother was not married, and Annie simply made up a father when she married. Pretty common.

Thomas's marriage cert may shed light. If we ever get it. Getting danged tired of holding my breath here ...

1861 census:


Name: Joseph Roberts
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Wales

Civil Parish: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Occupation: Joiner <<<

Condition as to marriage: Married - no wife present

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: West Derby
ED, institution, or vessel: 44f
Household schedule number: 126

Mary A Bowes 63
Ellen Roberts 10
Joseph Roberts 40
Joseph Roberts 3


Could be the same one (e.g. if son Joseph died before next census, daughter Ellen married/left home).

Can't find any of them in the 1871.


The landscape gardener: he could have been long dead when Annie got married, and all she remembered was that he used to hammer nails ... (Which is a more desirable / lucrative job: landscape gardener, which sounds pretty fancy, or carpenter?)

this is the only one i keep coming up with
census 1871 lancs
joseph 48 landscape gardener born pwllelli wales.
ann 37
ann 10
william 6
thomas 2

but if thats them why has it got carpenter on annie mcdougall nee roberts m.c?bit long in the tooth to change jobs or was he a carpenter that couldnt find work so went gardening to fill in?

eer always called her aunty annies side of the family" the criccieth lot" even though she had nothing to do with them after her marriage .and they referred to her as "irish" on the few occasions they visited when she was a child

yes that must be her as it the right area and date for annies birth

on knees .hands in prayer position..begging forgiveness..or are you and the other kind kind people putting me right in the dog house?or sending me to coventry.tell you how stupid i am i got thomas and marys mc date wrong with gro and got a refund and now had to re order...twp twp twp vivienne

"joseph was most likely born north wales as criccieth[ as per journo ]is next door to porthmadog"

Where is Criccieth coming from?

What is journo?

How about:


Name: Ann Eliza Roberts
Year of Registration: 1862
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: West Derby
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: (have to look at image)

You have got to be kidding me.


Father JOSEPH not EVAN? And I just took all that on faith because you said so. You'd better not try to tell me the time of day in the near future. I'm not going to believe a word of it!

Oh, but such fun we had ...

got thomas"s sisters m.c[annie mcdougall as per 1901 census with eer as niece] yesterday and it says..
father ...joseph roberts... carpenter ...on it.

annie eliza was b 1862 liverpool....... but im blowed if i can find her and thomas together anywhere even if i do have wrong date of birth for thomas.i cant even find her on her own with joseph, nor thomas with joseph ,please try and put me out of my misery someone and tell me where im going wrong .
joseph was most likely born north wales as criccieth[ as per journo ]is next door to porthmadog and my north wales geog isnt up to much but its going to improve very quickly i hope

heres hoping..vivienne..

from the wilds of wales its a long way and with x mount of canines even harder and i did try to ...exhume... the answer for you....sorry george.......ok..hisht nawr viv [ie be quiet viv]

Viv,
If you can get to the 4th floor, Liverpool Central Library any Tuesday afternoon after14:00 hrs you will meet some very willing volunteers with a vast amount of specific local knowledge. Just ask.

The marriage is buried in that list of yours, George --

ROBERTS Thomas JENNINGS Mary Liverpool, St. Peter Liverpool 2122LP/92/358

You might have missed it in the lists I posted earlier:

Marriages Dec 1897
Cornett Sarah Jane Liverpool 8b 60
Galvin William Liverpool 8b 60
** Jennings Mary Liverpool 8b 60
** Roberts Thomas Liverpool 8b 6


What Vivienne has got now is the birth cert for their child, giving the two parents' names, so we know that's the marriage.

Not that anybody should be expected to follow the tangled web that is this thread. ;)

Hi Viv,
Sorry about that.

The lists are the collection of all the marriages for Thomas Roberts' for the years 1895 - 1904. There are some Thomas H's i 1903 (2nd marriage?)

The H might not have been used on the Marriage Cert.

page 4 no 5 on this thread holds the key but thank you for the other info as i will use it when i look for thomas,s siblings marriages,