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Cert is ordered eta 6th jan

See thomas roberts keeps coming up!!

So, this looks like an Irish Catherine possibly marrying a Jennings:


Marriages Sep 1883
CONNOR Catherine Liverpool 8b 293
DOOLEY William Liverpool 8b 293
JENNINGS Thomas Liverpool 8b 293
SUTTON Mary Ann Liverpool 8b 293


This could be them in 1891:


Name: Catherine Jennings
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Thomas
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England


She'd 'a been a bit old in WWII.


A Thomas Roberts may have married an Elizabeth Connor:


Marriages Sep 1898
Connor Elizabeth Islington 1b 863
Flanagan Thomas Anthony Islington 1b 863
ROBERTS Thomas Islington 1b 863
Saffrine Louise Dennie Islington 1b 863


but it may be more likely that Connor married Flanagan there. ;)


... Well, looks like Flanagan married Saffrine:


Name: Thomas Flanagan
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Louise
Gender: Male
Where born: Greenwich, London, England
Civil Parish: Greenwich
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: London
Country: England


and the only Thomas Roberts - Elizabeth couple I see in Islington already has a load o' kids:


Name: Thomas W Roberts
Age: 59
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Worcester
Civil Parish: Islington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Emmanuel
County/Island: London
Country: England


After all this, I'm a little obsessed with figgering it out before the birth cert arrives. ;)

1881 census lancashire.

catherine [widow] 54 b longford ...annuitant

elizabeth daugther 19 b england...bag warehouse [docks]

catherine daughter 16 england ....printing works.

james son 21 england....i forgot to note..

47 hornby st liverpool
surname..Jennings..on family search.

??????????

ha, so you're abandoning the "jennings was prob the aunts married name" theory??

I click, hoping for news -- nice hard facts -- and you're still theorizing and hypothesizing. ;)

Those people aren't even Irish!!

So where is longford then?right in the middle of ireland next to athlone..well by about 30 miles anyway.and IRISH stuck back when.still trying to find the daddy but think im on the right trail for him even if this is the totally wrong family.

hee hee. I'm still trying to learn *English* geography! (Did pretty well on some Welsh geography, didn't I then?) Just been looking for Biggleswade at google maps. And you people laugh at place names like Moose Jaw ...

Hey, who cares if it's the totally wrong family? Beats doing the dishes.

Yep your welsh geog is getting better but we,ll have to work on the irish a bit..".darling "does the dishes but still cant turn the cooker on so i guess ill be back later with a little more.confusion.

" Darlings" birthday today, grandson of

elizabeth ethel roberts

and what a present postie brought.

its here folks!! i just love early deliveries.

Thomas henry roberts did marry last q1897 just not west derby but liverpool.sorry kathryn b my novice mistake but they are close in districts.

thread page 3 message 6

and eers mothers death was reg 2nd quarter1899

as you suggested

page 2 message 11

and i put you off the scent by suggesting elizabeth as mrs roberts first name[ many apologies and eating humble pie]...oh and on eers cert father thomas is listed as .marine fireman..so when did he stop being a joiner and dont answer that swear words can offend ..thanks so much for your input you did good gal !!!... vivienne. p s back in new year have a good one everybody.

So ... you're not actually going to tell us the answers???


Marriages Dec 1897
BASTOW Elizabeth Ann Liverpool 8b 215
Bradley Emma Orontes Liverpool 8b 215
Roberts Thomas Liverpool 8b 215
Smith Robert James Liverpool 8b 215


Marriages Dec 1897
Gardiner Sarah Ann Liverpool 8b 322
Roberts Thomas Liverpool 8b 322
Ryan Catherine Liverpool 8b 322
Scully John Liverpool 8b 322


Marriages Dec 1897
Cornett Sarah Jane Liverpool 8b 60
Galvin William Liverpool 8b 60
Jennings Mary Liverpool 8b 60
Roberts Thomas Liverpool 8b 60


Oh. There they are. Last two on last list.


There aren't many more than a dozen Mary Roberts-s who died in 2nd quarter 1899. You know which one, do you?

If someone asks very very nicely, are you going to tell?? Her birthdate, for instance, and whether you've found her and sister Catherine in censuses ...

Anyhow, then you're back to Ireland it seems, and my Irish genealogy is worse than my Irish geography, so yer on yer own!

mary roberts nee jenning born 1874 as she was 23 at time of death .

not as fast as you lot ..give me time!

no i havent found the girls together yet but im working on it with a few poss as i think there is a bit of an age gap.

gonna miss the wit sharpening but ill be back and dont all groan at once..viv..

born 16 03 1899 2 corinthian street seaforth west derby.

elizabeth ethel

girl


father thomas roberts

mother.mary roberts formerly jennings.

fathers occ marine fireman

informant t h roberts 2 corinthian street seaforth

reg 24 4 1899

got typers cramp now..viv

Mary's father, on marriage certificate?

If William, how about this one in 1891? Father William was born in Ireland.:


Name: Mary Ann Jennings
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Alice
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthias
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 34

Alice Jennings 35
Mary Ann Jennings 16
William Jennings 36

or ...


Name: Mary Jennings
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Eliza A
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool

Civil Parish: Kirkdale
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Kirkdale
ED, institution, or vessel: 34

Catherine Fagan 27 - formerly Jennings
Patrick Fagan 36
Peter Fagan 4
Eliza A Jennings 51
Frederick Jennings 22
James Jennings 19
John Jennings 59 - born in Scotland
Mary Jennings 17
Margaret Purcell 1/12

those are some of my poss.now youve done it .gonna send for the m.c.as apparently in the journo catherine was eers closest rel but auntie annie didnt like her visiting.and which site did i see on?been to so many today.

Please would someone kindly look at the 1968 last quarter death record[untranscribed] for.. catherine jennings.. to see if im right about her being 87 at time of death as its very faint. also how old were girls usually on their confirmation as "darling "has just handed me a load of forgotten papers and
mary jennings was first communion 1885.and comfirmed 1886 .found in an envelope entitled ..my sister mary jennings ..amongst his mothers papers.

im now off to wring his kneck for withholding information. thanks.viv.

"Someone" reporting for duty.

I read it as definitely 87. The 8 is not the same as the 6 in the number below, e.g.

(If you're reading at FreeBMD, the image is usually crappier than at Ancestry where I'm reading -- or are you all signed up? If so, make sure you're using the super duper version of the viewer, and have it set for enhanced images -- except for sometimes when the original image is actually better for reading faint images.)

So Catherine was an *unmarried* aunt after all?

If they were RC, then the girls would have been confirmed quite young -- I think about age 5 is usual -- or that would be first communion, I guess. Ex-Protestant of the Presbyterian kinda sort, myself. CofE, I dunno. Older, I suspect.

Oh -- kindly wring his neck extremely hard for me. If I could reach that far, I would be extremely happy to do it myself.

Here ya go (google google google):


http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GENMSC/2002-11/1036683430

So in the Anglican tradition Christian initiation is a three-stage process:

1) Baptism (sometimes called christening)
2) Confirmation
3) First communion

Steps 2 & 3 would take place at the "years of discretion" which could be variously interpreted at various places and times, but would be between the ages of 7 and 18 or thereabouts.

In the Roman Catholic Church the order is different:

1) Baptism (sometimes called christening)
2) First communion (around the age of 7)
3) Confirmation (around the ages of 11-16)

--------------------------------------------------

So it's actually hard to say which category your facts fall into.

Then i THINK their parents are 1891

patrick 46 bricklayer abt 1845 age 46 b liverpool.

carherine abt1846 age 42 b ireland

catherine 86 ireland mother.

mary a daughter age 10 b liverpool

4 court 6house kew st. st martin liverpool

next page all on her own

catherine daughter age 7 b liverpool.

cant find any of them thereafter or before except.

catherine jennings servant age 17 on the 1901

and you know how they guess at ages.... but im prob wrong and have ordered the m.c today.and they were definate rc.
have got ancestry now but havent found my whole way round yet but ill get it one day.