Find Ancestors

Hi Benjamin, unfortunately yes, much time has passed. Unless Thomas marked this thread to "Watch", he doesn't get notice of your reply, and it doesn't look like he's been active at the site since 2007 (only 8 posts to his name).

If, and it's a big if these days, he has the same email address he had in 2007, or he updated his email address in his account here, he will get notifications by email of "private messages" sent to him through this system. He can also reply to messages even if he is no longer a member, but it would make sense to send him your email address for direct contact.

Click on his name to get the form for sending a message. Then you can check in your own "Sent messages" folder to see whether it has been read by him: an envelope beside the messages shows that it is unopened.

I'm mainly answering to say that if you do manage to contact Thomas, you could solve his mystery once and for all by the two of you doing what's called an autosomal DNA test, the cheapest of all the available DNA tests. Ancestry does it, as does 23andMe and the company I use, FamilyTreeDNA, and various others. As long as the two of you tested with the same company, the results would tell you whether you are both descended from a common ancestor.


To answer something Thomas said back in 2007, formal/legal adoption was not available until 1929. Gladys was 14 when Mr Whitfield "took her in", and that would have been about 1931. So he might have formally adopted her, but more likely just "took her in".

One does have to wonder what Thomas may have learned in the intervening decade! If he hasn't done it, an autosomal DNA test might point him to family on one or both of Gladys's parents side, whoever they were.


edit 6 Feb - sent a PM to Benjamin about replies in thread

I know this is late but you are looking for my family. T.W Grundy is my great great uncle. My great grandad was George Grundy, my grandad Roger (sadly passed away last year).

Unfortunately my great grandfather George Grundy was tragically killed in an accident in the steel works in the 80s. So I never met him, but the whole family has always said what a brilliant, kind, great man he was. He would have been the nephew of t.w grundy

The family of George Grundy was very tight nit. My great nan betty would host Sunday dinners for all the kids, grandkids, and great grandkids (me). Very fond memories of the time I had with them.

Hi Kathryn

You got the right Tom Whitfield born 1879 he was my adoptive grandad. He was a master carpenter and was responsible for fitting out th SS Mauritania...sister ship to the Titanic. Our family still has a large oil painting of him, what we are really interested in is his means of adopting our mother.

Don't give up the day job but many thaks for your assistance.

Best wishes

Tom

I shouldn't be doing this, because I'm not going to find anything you don't already know, and I should be working ... but I have a mystery of my own from around 1850 and I know how much it itches!

So, this would be Gladys's mother's birth? --

Name: Jane Annie Holland
Year of Registration: 1896
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Tynemouth
County: Northumberland
Volume: 10b
Page: 200

And this is the only likely-looking Thomas Whitfield in the 1901:

Name: Thomas Whitfield
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Emily
Gender: Male
Where born: Wallsend, Northumberland, England

Civil Parish: Wallsend
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke
Town: Wallsend
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England


Presumably his parents:

Name: William Whitfield + Emily Parker
Year of Registration: 1876
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Tynemouth
County: Northumberland
Volume: 10b
Page: 293

Dang. I was hoping maybe his mother was a Grundy. ;)


But no -- your Thomas Whitfield would be the next generation, I think, to be of Jane Annie's age-ish, i.e. to be "granddad" to you. A half dozen were born in Tynemouth in the 1890s ...


I don't suppose this marriage might be of some interest:

Name: Thomas Grundy
Year of Registration: 1912
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Spouse: Annie Whitfield
District: Liverpool (1837-1934)
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 154


(I searched at FreeBMD for any Whitfield married any Grundy, anytime, anywhere.)

A Charles Whitfield may have married an Ann Grundy in Tynemouth in 1859.


Your Thomas W Grundy held office as MP from 1918 to 1931, it seems.

And as mayor:

http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/graphics/Learning/Archives/
Rotherham+Greats/EDS20thCentury.htm

Thomas Grundy (with a photo)
23rd May 1864 - 28th January 1942 Born in Greasbrough
He was active in the Miners' Union. He was elected checkweighman at Rotherham Main. In 1915 he was the town's first Labour mayor, and in 1918 he became first Labour MP for Rother Valley.


Good DNA! I recently learned that the grandson of the brother of one my grx4 grmothers was a Lord Chancellor, and as a Law Lord wrote one of the most important decisions in Canadian constitutional history -- and, phew, was a Labour peer. ;)


Holy Island ... google says: Lindisfarne? With a 2001 population of 162. ;)

There are certainly a lot of Thomas Whitfield marriages in Northumberland, and of course the transcriptions are not up to where you may want to be looking -- but you're looking at a first marriage in the 19-teens?

1901 census has 407 residents on Holy Island. Female residents born 1870-1901: 113 -- with many clusters of surnames -- look like about 35 surnames. Have you done a search at FreeBMD for Whitfields who married any of the surnames in question in Northumberland during the right time period? You may have to wait for transcriptions to progress ... or thumb through the images. ;)

And I have to do some work!

P S Kathryn
Yes the check weighman Thomas Grundy, became M.P. for Rother Valley, I'm off to Rotherham soon to check the archives regarding his tenure in office. It was long.

Hi Kathryn

Very many thanks for your insightful notes.
I'm pretty sure this is the correct family. As for the other information you enquired about ...

Our mother was born in 1917, registered in Newcastle on Tyne. On her birth certificate she is recorded as Gladys Mabel Holland. Her mother is named as Jane Annie Holland living in Newcastle. She is listed as a shell factory machinist.
As I have already stated our mother explained (over time) that her mother died very early in her life and she went to live with her father's (never mentioned) relations in Rotherham. She spoke kindly of at least one person in the family who was kind to her. Unfortunately we have no forename to assist us in our search.The tale we have is that at fourteen she had to leave school (some fees were mentioned) along with the fact that it was a grammar school(our mother was rather clever) , at which point she was moved to Wallsend to live with a family called Whitfield. I was born in Wallsend and can remember visiting granddad Whitfield. My mother married under the name of Gladys M Whitfield. At present I am trying to identify Thomas Whitfield and his family .. he married twice and on his second marriage my mother went into service in rural Northumberland where she met my father.The Whitfield's had lived on Tyneside for many years and my sister believes Thomas Whitfield may have married into one of the Holy Island families on his first marriage. What we are now trying to establish is a link between the Whitfields and Jane Annie Holland. Fascinating!

Best wishes
Tom

Hi Thomas -- you're looking for facts beyond what are in the censuses, e.g. 1901? --


Name: Thos W Grundy
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: Rotherham, Yorkshire, England

Civil Parish: Rotherham
Ecclesiastical parish: Rotherham All Saints
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Rotherham
Sub-registration district: South East Rotherham
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 186

Annie Grundy 8
Doris Grundy 4
Eliza Grundy 34
Ethel Grundy 13
George W Grundy 3
Hilda Grundy 6
Jessie Grundy 10
Mary B Grundy 12
Thomas W Grundy 15
Thos W Grundy 35

on edit -- oops -- that may not be him; that one was a colliery check weighman, maybe not the background for a mayor/MP ... although, he was Labour:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rother_Valley_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

Without a little more info about your mother -- like, year of birth? -- it's hard to theorize. For instance, if she was born after about 1905, it might be more likely, if there is a family connection, that her father was one of Thomas Walter's sons. I wouldn't imagine your mother was born more than 100 years ago. ;)

For him to be your mother's father, he would have had to be well over 50 when she was born, I'd think, while of course her mother would have been much younger. Not at all unimaginable, of course; exploitation was rampant.

Do you know what her mother's occupation was? And year of birth maybe? Not to give away private family info -- just the non-identifying kind that might help the theorizing.

One of my mother's aunts was born to my gr-grmother before she married. My gr-grmother was a domestic servant, and we believe that Auntie Dud's middle name was the surname of the household where her mother was employed, but don't know whether her "father" was the head of household or a son. Unfortunately, she was born in 1890, too long after a census for there to be a clue where her mother was working. So I've poked around in the general area, looking for households with that surname who had domestic servants in 1891 ... don't know what I'd do with them if I found them. ;)

Anyhow, just a bit more info maybe, to compare to Grundy info. I don't suppose her given name / middle name offers any clues ...

Thanks Heather.. I know he was a mayor of Rotherham. and M.P. for Rother Valley. What I am trying to ascertain are the facts about his family. Our family folklore is built around snippets of conversations with our mother who died quite young and before we showed any real interest in her roots. I was brought up to believe that the man I called granddad was her father...not so, as shown on her birth certificate, which contained only her mother's name.'Granddad' took her in when she was 14. She told us about her schooling in Rotherham, she went to grammar school. She told us her mother died soon after she was born and she was sent to live with her relations in Rotherham. The name Grundy was mentioned. As was 'mayor of '

Thanks Elizabeth.. I know he was a mayor of Rotherham. and M.P. for Rother Valley. What I am trying to ascertain are the facts about his family. Our family folklore is built around snippets of conversations with our mother who died quite young and before we showed any real interest in her roots. I was brought up to believe that the man I called granddad was her father...not so, as shown on her birth certificate, which contained only her mother's name.'Granddad' took her in when she was 14. She told us about her schooling in Rotherham, she went to grammar school. She told us her mother died soon after she was born and she was sent to live with her relations in Rotherham. The name Grundy was mentioned. As was 'mayor of '

Have you tried googling for information? Have you got your mothers birth cert and/or marriage cert - if they are blank where the fathers name should be or there is another name then I cant see how you can prove he is her father or not? Unless maintenance was paid.

Have you tried Rotherham Council, I would think they keep a list of former Mayors.
Good luck,
Liz

I am trying to find any details of Thomas Walter Grundy born 1864 who became an M.P. in 1918. I believe he was also Mayor of Rotherham in 1915. If family folklore is true then he was my mother's father.. if he was not then I can get on with my research.