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thank you for help that is true

Karen

BUT, BUT

Alexanderer's daughter Mary J (or S) was born about 1880/81, and Burton was her MAIDEN name. If the birth certificate I found is the correct one, her name is Mary Jane Burton

Therefore,

Mary Ann Burton born 1873, daughter-in-law, living with her hsuband and in-laws iin 1901 CANNNOT be yours! Burton is her married name! Thew middle name is wrong. The birth year is way out of line.


sylvia

i have found a mary ann burton who was born in 1873 aged 28 in 1901 census married and daughter in law to relation to head. So she was living with her husbands family. In peterborough where my family has come from i will now look up jack burtons birth and try and find out who his father is

Right i am getting you now
wasn't very awake last night
i get you so i will such for mary burton and see what i come up with and let you know

Hi Shirley,

have you convinced karen though?


sylvia

I agree!! have been talking to Karen by pm and saying the same

Shirley

From the 1901 census

Alexander Barton 36 Servant, Charwoman
Jack Barton 1 b.ca 1900, Grandson of Servant
William Barton 18 b.ca 1883, Peterborough, Sone of Servant, Horse Driver Corporation (Cabman)
Thos Jones 38 Head, b. ca 1863, Marylebone Lane, London, General Labourer

William is Alexandra's son

Jack is shown on the image as Grandson of servant (ie, Alexandra's grandson)

The record on ancestry says Jack, father William ................ in other words the person who transcribed the information from the image assumed that Grandson of Alexnadra meant that he was the son of Alexandra's son.

so they are saying Alexandra ---> William ---> Jack

I think it is more likely that Jack is the son of her absent daughter Mary. BECAUSE the image says William is unmarried, there is no other female named, and a baby fathered by him would be more likely to be cared for by its mother and her family.


Finally .......................... Jack is a common pet name for John. So that is why Rose thinks she has found the birth registration.


sylvia

Don't you think Jack/John is Mary Jane's son?

Rose

what william is jacks father?
i know about the servant thing now i have just had to see through a magnifying glass
who is john Burton?

This must be Jack's birth:

Births Mar 1900
Burton John Peterbro' 3b 259

Rose

Karen,


IF you look at the actual image of the census, the handwritten original census, it actually says Grandson OF SERVANT.


That is what I have been trying to tell you!

Meanwhile on the Record, transcribed for ancestry, it says Grandson, father WILLIAM


sylvia

I will send off for a birth certificate
But on the census Jack Burton is apparently Thos jones Grandson

I wonder if this is the birth registration for Alexandra's daughter Mary


I re-checked the 1891 census image, and it could be either an S or a J ................. I compared the middle initial with other capital S and J on the page, and it looks like neither, but halfway between!!!


Births Dec 1880 (>99%)

BURTON Mary Jane Bourn 7a 847




sylvia

Kren,

Alexandra is living with Thomas Jones, and listed as his servant.

Jack Burton is shown as Grandson of servant.

in other words .... Alexandra's grandson. Nothing apparently to do with Thos Jones.


I would guess he is the son of the Mary S (Surrell) shown on the 1891 census.


sylvia

Karen,

you will probably never know, unfortunately!!


UNLESS, you manage to find a mention in the parish register!!

OR unless father's name is mentioned on the birth certificate.


I should order that birth certificate andsee what is on there.


You never know, you might be lucky!!



sylvia

On the 1901 census it says that
Thos Jones was head of family
Alexanderer Burton Relation servant
William Burton Relation Servants son
Jack Burton Grandson
i am confused that Thos Jones and Jack Burton are related

Soooooo
The big question is
Who was Williams Dad ????
So confusing

Karen,


send off for William Burton's birth certificate, if you don't already have it, and see what it says.


It may well be that Charles Surrell was his father, but unless Alexandra/er has named the father on the certificate, then it will remain unknown.


The only other possible option is to find out if he was christened (baptized), then go and try to see the actual parish record. Sometimes the vicar made a notation in the margin in which he names the father of an illegitimate child!



sylvia

Karen,


I think I have mislead you by thinking aloud.


I think there is only ONE Alexander/ra Burton. NO other AB turns up on the censuses or on freebmd


I think she was living with Charles Surrell in 1891. Note also that her mother describes herself as a widow on that census, and we know that is wrong!


I think the surnames of the children on the 1891 census are wrong .............. they havebeen given Charles' surname but he and Alexander/ra are not married


I have found a birth registration for William Burton born 1883 in Peterborough, and there is only this one!


The address on the 1891 census and on the 1901 census is the same.



sylvia

No William Surrell born in Peterborough that I could see,

BUT


Births Mar 1883 (>99%)

Burton William Peterboro 3b 255



sylvia