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Dionne

Even in this day and age Lance Corporals are referred to as Corporal, so would not read too much into that.

I have been intrigued reading your thread though over the past week, fascinating!!

Good luck.

Nicki

Hi Wayne

Im sorry but you will have to wait a little longer.my brother went to London but due to time etc he was unable to make it to the Embassy.But he is going up for a few days in the middle of next week.
I have managed to order a copy of my grandmothers will.

I also think my grandmother must have been lieing about her father as I cannot find any information on him what soever.On her marriage certificate to herbert it says fathers name and occupation EDWIN WILLIAM LIVERMORE
Lance Corporal Royal Army medical Corps.Deceased. Dorothea was 21 at time of marriage.
On her second marriage certificate to Arther Knight.Her father is the same name but promoted to Corporal.

I can not find any record of a birth or death for him.I have looked at various Army history sites and find no information on him what so ever.Nothing listed on memorials.

So here is something for you to get your teeth into,tracking down her father,lol

Dionne
x

Dionne!!!

I'm desperate for an update....how did your brother get on at the embassy?

Hi Pamela

Thankyou very much for that information. As my brother is limeted for time when he goes to London I will write to obtain a copy of the will.
Watch this space.
Dionne
x

My brother has an appointment with the embassy tomorrow.So fingers crossed we will get a result.
Dionne
x

Hi just nudging this as I have been reading it with huge interest from the start!!
Christine

might want to get him to add Adam/David to the list ??

Maybe the missing birth/death does actually exist aterall?

Thankyou very much Wayne.

My brother is going to London in a week or so I will get him to do this for me. I have a long list for him,lol.
Dionne

Oh i agree it does seem likely she was born there... wonder if she just tried to elongate the romance of being born abroad by saying her son was too? maybe she tried to live her own early years thru her son? maybe her longing for home was greater than the family realised, and she convinced herself she was there longer than she was by perpetrating the lies about your father being born there? or maybe the missing child was indeed born there? in which case she could well have been delusional and confusing him with your father?

oooh yes a good mystery.... well one things for certain without her lies we wouldn't have half a good a story as we have now! this is def one hell of a story to pass on to your family !

Dionne

I have called the SA Embassy, you need to download the cert application paperwork from here www.southafricahouse.com and then call this number...0906 554 0799, they will make an appointment for you to see them !

Seems a little long winded....!

LOL Wayne

We do know that she did have a will that is certain. I thought anyone could get copies of wills or has not enough time passed to be able to get a copy.
I thought exactly the same about the birth being in South Africa and stories,lol. But why have we not been able to find a birth registered for her over here then?
Dont you love a good mystery?
Dionne

Oh i love the internet...he's calling home now to ask his dad... bless he's been over here too long!

Sadly not everyone makes wills, she may not have made one, i would have thought if she did then Arthur's family would have it?
I wonder then was she really born in SA? or did the person registering the death listen to her stories and believe she was actually born in SA?
I have a SA friend i will ask him how someone would go about ordering a SA certificate, i will try and get hold of him today.

Hello Wayne

We didnt think that she did marry Shipton.I know people have looked and their sems no record of a marriage between her and Shipton.
But on her marriage certificate to Arther Knight in the entry Name and surname it says
Dorothea Maud Shipton formally known as Dorothea Maud Sloper.
I do think she lived her life in a story book and made it up as she went along not realising that in later life a very curious grand daughter would come along and research fact from fiction.
As for the famliy of Arhter Knight we know that Arthers son took an instant dislike to Dorothea as to why we dont know but we can guess. he wanted nothing to do with her and was against the marriage of her to his father.His father was 74 and she was 62 at the time of their marriage. I ordered the death certificate thinking he might have been the person to register her death but he wasnt.it turned out to be a friend of Arthers and Dorotheas. She would have only known about Dorotheas life with what ever story Dorothea gave her.
I am wondering if Constance Dorotheas sister was also born in South Africa and their mother was also South African by birth and this is where Dorotheas father met his wife.
It does seem a very complicated process in obtaining a birth certificate from South Africa and I am wondering now if there is really any point.All I would want to know is the name of her mother.

Do you or anyone have any ideas on how I obtain a copy of a will made by Dorothea?

Many thanks again for your time and effort
Dionne

This is a very interesting site..

http://www.rupert.net/~lkool/page2.html#2%29%20BEGINNING%20YOUR

South Africa is one of the few countries where census enumeration records are destroyed. Only statistics from each census are kept. The Archives in Cape Town have the Cape Colony Publications which contain census lists for 1875, 1891, 1904 and 1911 only - but do not specify names of individuals.

The public has no direct access to the records held by the Department of Home Affairs in Pretoria. The facilities, files and records of the Department of Home Affairs are not open to the public or researchers. There is no index for perusal by the public. The public may submit applications for copies of birth, marriage and death certificates. Two types of certificates are available - an abridged certificate and a full certificate. For genealogical purposes, always request FULL certificates, as they contain more details. Within South Africa, application can be made at any Department of Home Affairs office. To apply for certificates from outside South Africa one must do so through the nearest South African Embassy, Consulate or High Commission. There is a charge associated with obtaining copies of these certificates. The Department of Home Affairs should not be your first choice when researching South African births, marriages or deaths for family history purposes. The Department is not attaining an acceptable level of service to the public, and most importantly, South African certificates are not as useful to family history research as in other countries. Rather try other sources first. The South African National Archives has some marriage and death registers older than 20 years, for some areas of the country, although the issue of official certificates can only be done by the Department of Home Affairs. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) / Mormom Church, through its genealogical department, has microfilmed a number of South African civil registration records, which can be consulted at their Family History Centres. Not all Centres have the microfilms in stock - they may have to be ordered from the country's main Centre or from Salt Lake City, Utah.

GENEALOGICAL SOCIETIES
The main society in South Africa is the Genealogical Society of South Africa (http://www.ggsa.info/) , which was established in June 1964 and has regional branches. It does not undertake research. The Society and its branches publish journals and newsletters. For those living outside South Africa, the virtual branch of the GSSA is a great deal.


The Genealogical Institute of South Africa (http://www.sun.ac.za/gisa/) was formed in 1998 and is a private research centre, accessible to the public at a fee.

The Huguenot Society of South Africa (http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/8140/) preserves the French Huguenot heritage in South Africa. It collects information
about the Huguenots, arranges meetings and carries out genealogical research on Huguenot and related families.

The 1820 British Settlers records are mostly kept by the Albany Museum (http://www.ru.ac.za/departments/am/geneal.html) . The Genealogist is available to carry out research for a fee.

oooh so we have the South African link??

Do you think she mixed her own life into your fathers a little to make it more interesting?

Now where is the Shipton link? surely she should have been maiden name Shipton? Livermore, Sloper, Shipton, Knight is her history?

The maiden name in cert purposes is not the born name but your last previously used name. So her death cert should have maybe said Shipton? so maybe she didn't marry him afterall?? or Mr Knight didn't know of his existance?

Have you tried finding the family of the last husband to see if they can shed any light on her life ?

Hello All

Today i received Dorothea's death certificate.

Name Dorothea maud Knight
Maiden name Sloper (no Livermore)
Date and Place of Birth.....
30th October 1909 South Africa
Occupation Housekeeper Retired
Date of Reg 15th April 1998

So it looks like she was born in South Africa. If she was does anyone have any idea on how I can obtain her birth certificate? I dont know her mothers name and only have her fathers. Also would I be able to obtain a copy of er will iand if so how?
many thanks
Dionne

upon doing a trace on the Price's of Newport.... there are loads of them ! It's a very popular name!

Could this be him?
Death
PRICE, David Llewellyn 9 September 1930 Newport 1999 December District No 8361C
Reg No C74C
Ent No 113
Dor 1299



Birth
David L Price mmn Jones
Newport M
4th qtr 1930
vol 11a page 315

Brenda

Thanks Wayne

Im sat here thinking...Has anyone come across a death for Jean Anns Husband.She died in 2004 but what about her husband.Could he still be alive?

Dionne