Find Ancestors

Sorry, only have access to England and Wales, no Scotland records.
Sorry
Ceri

Can someone help me solve a puzzle, My mothers grandfather Frank Webber was married to a lady I think called florence on the 1891 cesus and had a son arthur, when she was dieing she asked her sister elizabeth to look after arthur for her so she moved in, my mum was always told that lizzie as she was known hoped to married frank but he married someone else and had frederick and henry BUT there is no sign of the new wife but on the 1901 census it says elizabeth is his wife ! henry was 8 and my gramp was 9 (frederick) my mum said that lizzie lived with them until she died in april 1944 but was never told that she was her proper nan and mums dad was not allowed to talk about it ! but mum remembers her mum panicing as she was worried that liz would not be able to get franks pension ! liz lived with them for 14 years so frank must of die around 1930,

anybody who can understand this able to sort please

Jules

Hi Ceri,
As I said it is about 42 years since I heard about Lillian. If one of the ones you have listed had the middle name Emma it may well of fitted in, as her Mothers name was Emma.
As far as I know she married Robert Powell, and he was Durance and Alana's Father.
So as I say I am a bit stuck on this ANY suggestions would be a great help.
Thanks for your help so far.
Barry

Ok...Julie

If i have have managed to understand your request properly, i believe the following is the 1891 census you were talking about.

1891 census - household transcription
Person: WEBBER, Frank
Address: 25, Theobald Street, Swindon, New Swindon

WEBBER, Frank Head Married M 25 Brass Finisher, Newton Abbot, Devonshire VIEW VIEW
WEBBER, Florence E Wife Married F 20
Marshfield, Gloucestershire VIEW VIEW
WEBBER, Arthur F Son M 3 Swindon, Wiltshire VIEW VIEW
JUDD, Frederick Father In Law Widower M 64 Painter, Witney, Oxfordshire VIEW VIEW
JUDD, Elizabeth M Sister In Law Single F 27 Dressmaker, Brixton, London VIEW VIEW
DAVEY, Harry Lodger Single M 20 Boiler Smith Apprentice, Bristol, Gloucestershire VIEW VIEW
PHILLIPS, Zechariah Lodger Single M 19 Steam Engineers Apprentice, Cardiff, Wiltshire VIEW VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:RG12 Piece:1583 Folio:131 Page:28

Registration District:Highworth
Sub District:Swindon
EnumerationDistrict:25
Ecclesiastical Parish:St Marks

Civil Parish:Swindon
Municipal Borough:
Address:25, Theobald Street, Swindon, New Swindon
County:Wiltshire

This census obviously has Frank himself onit, along with his wife Florence (maiden name would be Judd), their son Arthur, Florence's father (Frederick Judd), Florence's sister (Elizabeth!!she is already living with them!) Then two lodger's

More details will follow!!
Ceri

Julie
This is Florence and Elizabeths MOTHER and father and Elizabeth and other siblings on the 1881 census.

1881 census - household transcription
Person: JUDD, Frederick
Address: 27 Havelock St, Swindon
JUDD, Frederick Head Married M 54 House Painter
Witney, Oxfordshire
JUDD, Sarah Wife Married F 60 Waxham, Norfolk
JUDD, James Son Single M 30 Machineman (E&m)
Gillingham, Kent
JUDD, Sarah A Daughter Single F 21 Forton, Hampshire
JUDD, Elizabeth M Daughter Single F 18
Brixton, Surrey
JUDD, Harriet A Daughter Single F 15
Brixton, Surrey

RG number:RG11 Piece:2020 Folio:129 Page:25

Registration District:Highworth
Sub District:Swindon

Civil Parish:Swindon
Address:27 Havelock St, Swindon County:Wiltshire

Im just looking for marriages bare with me
Ceri

Julie
It would appear that Florences maiden name may not have been Judd after all, i searched 1885 - 1891 for her marriage to Frank with no results!
I then searched Frank Webber marriages in Wiltshire and found the following, it maybe worth noting the 1887 as Frank Webber appears to marry a Sarah JUDD, on the 1891 census there is a father in law with the surname JUDD so maybe worth while checking this out!

Marriages Sep 1887
BURGESS Emma Highworth 5a 50
JUDD Sarah Ann Highworth 5a 50
RICHINGS Arthur Highworth 5a 50
STOCKLEY Ellen Ann Wareham 5a 50
WEBBER Frank Highworth 5a 50

Marriages Dec 1889
Beazley Frederick James Highworth 5a 29
THOMAS Margaret Highworth 5a 29
Webber Frank Highworth 5a 29
Wiltshire Florence Ellen Highworth 5a 29

Marriages Jun 1890
Adams Annie Elizabeth Alderbury 5a 372
Fry Emma Maria Alderbury 5a 372
SCAMELL Edwin Richard Alderbury 5a 372
Webber Frank Alderbury 5a 372

Marriages Dec 1902
Adams Thomas George Salisbury 5a 483
Gillett Emily Salisbury 5a 483
Parsons Kate Salisbury 5a 483
Webber Frank Salisbury 5a 483

Marriages Dec 1905
MORTIMER Eva Sarah B J M Wilton 5a 457
PRICE Thomas Mark Wilton 5a 457
VINING Ruth Wilton 5a 457
WEBBER Frank Wilton 5a 457

Marriages Dec 1910
Coley Ada Melksham 5a 251
Humphrey Florence U Melksham 5a 251
Oliver William E Melksham 5a 251
Webber Frank Melksham 5a 251

The 1889 marriage record looks promising as it has a Frank Webber marrying a Florence E Wiltshire.

This is Arthurs birth record
Births Sep 1887
WEBBER Arthur Frank Highworth 5a 26

This looks like Florence on the 1881 census (looks like Florence may have had a different father to Elizabeth)
1881 census - household transcription
Person: WILTSHIRE, Florence Ellen
Address: Freeland Road Private Ho, Stapleton
WILTSHIRE, James Head Married M 41 Horse Keeper Marshfield, Gloucestershire
WILTSHIRE, Sarah Ann Wife Married F 38
Limpley Stoke, Wiltshire
WILTSHIRE, Florence Ellen Daughter Single F 9 Scholar Marshfield, Gloucestershire
WILTSHIRE, Walter J W Son Single M 7 Scholar
Marshfield, Gloucestershire
WILTSHIRE, Fredk J Son Single M 3 Scholar
Stapleton, Gloucestershire
WILTSHIRE, Amelia J Daughter Single F 1
Stapleton, Gloucestershire
ROBERTS, Richard H Boarder Head Single M 28 Horse Keeper, Swansea, Glamorganshire, Wales

RG number:RG11 Piece:2506 Folio:43 Page:36

Registration District:Barton Regis
Sub District:Stapleton

Civil Parish:Stapleton
Address:Freeland Road Private Ho, Stapleton County:Gloucestershire

Hope this has helped a bit, let me know if there is anything else you want.
Ceri

Thanks Ceri,
you are a star, my hubby and I have been reading this for the last hour !!. can you find florences death for me and I presume that elizabeth decided to take his name seeing as she out lived both wifes !! did they used to do that then ? I have just spoken to my mum who is in her late 80's and she can now remember something about the wiltshire family so you was right, I will see if I can find sarahs death.

Thank you soooooooo much
Jules

Julie

Sorry if i confused you a bit!!
This is Florence's death in 1896.
Name: Florence Ellen Webber
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Year of Registration: 1896
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 24
District: Highworth
County: Wiltshire
Volume: 5a, Page: 9

It is still possible that Elizabeth did finally manage to get him down the aisle and marry him, but i have so far been unable to find it, especially considering Florence died in 1896 and by the 1901 census you say she is down as his wife already!! I have been unable to confirm this so far but will keep looking for you.

If there is anything else i can help with please let me know.
Thanks
Ceri

OK Julie

I searched through all marriage records between 1896 and 1902 inclusive, i found the following for Frank Webber. Note that the only one for Whiltshire is the 1902 one, and if that is him then it definately not to Elizabeth!!

Marriages Mar 1897
ANSELL James Charles Poole, Dorset 5a 425
Ansell John Charles Poole, Dorset 5a 425
Dyett Ada Lily Poole, Dorset 5a 425
Monk Bertha Paulina Poole, Dorset 5a 425
Webber Frank Poole, Dorset 5a 425

Marriages Jun 1897
Gard Mildred Cuckfield, Sussex 2b 313
Newman Alfred George Cuckfield, Sussex 2b 313
Pattenden Ellen Cuckfield, Sussex 2b 313
Webber Frank Cuckfield, Sussex 2b 313

Marriages Sep 1897
Alice Randell to Frank Webber @ Chertsey, Surrey 2a 80

Marriages Dec 1897
Cleave William Henry St Thomas, Devon 5b 119
GIBBINS Emma St. Thomas, Devon 5b 119
Webber Frank Wallace St Thomas Devon 5b 119
Willmot Gertrude Mabel St Thomas Devon 5b 119

Marriages Sep 1898 @ Devon
Burford Alice Mary Taunton 5c 541
Fear Bessie Taunton 5c 541
Holway William Francis Taunton 5c 541
WEBBER Frank Taunton 5c 541

Marriages Sep 1898 @ London
Isgoy Vladimir De Lemein Paddington 1a 176
OSBORNE Edith Amy Paddington 1a 176
Shaw Elizabeth Sophia Paddington 1a 176
WEBBER Frank Paddington 1a 176

Marriages Dec 1898 @ Gloucestershire
Allen Tom Bedminster 5c 1274
Ball Alice Bedminster 5c 1274
Lippiatt Annis Bedminster 5c 1274
WEBBER Frank Bedminster 5c 1274

Marriages Sep 1899 @ London
Acland Maud Emily Westminster 1a 1217
Edleston Robert Holmes Westminster 1a 1217
Hearne Emma Sarah Westminster 1a 1217
Webber Frank Westminster 1a 1217

Marriages Dec 1900 @ London
Cordell Ruth Poplar 1c 1122
Harding Elizabeth Jane Poplar 1c 1122
McHattie John Chisholm Poplar 1c 1122
Webber Frank Herbert Poplar 1c 1122

Marriages Sep 1901 @ Surrey
BOWER Robert Richmond, S. 2a 956
Donald Jessie Richmond Sry 2a 956
Solomon Constance Louise Richmond 2a 956
Webber Frank Richmond S 2a 956

Marriages Sep 1901 @ Glamorgan
KENEALY Bridget Josephine Swansea 11a 1607
ROBSON John Swansea 11a 1607
Thomas Margaret Matilda Swansea 11a 1607
Webber Frank Herbert Swansea 11a 1607

Marriages Dec 1902 @ Whiltshire
Adams Thomas George Salisbury 5a 483
Gillett Emily Salisbury 5a 483
Parsons Kate Salisbury 5a 483
Webber Frank Salisbury 5a 483


Ceri

Julie
I then searched Elizabeth Judd marriages between 1896 and 1902 inclusive, there are none in Wiltshire at all, but i have listed all Elizabeth Judd's marrying between the years 1896 and 1902 below.

Marriages Jun 1897 (>99%)
Judd Elizabeth S. Stoneham 2c 176
Judd Elizabeth Jane Lewisham 1d 1927

Marriages Mar 1898 (>99%)
Judd Elizabeth Westminster 1a 733
Judd Elizabeth Ann Rugby 6d 689

Marriages Jun 1898 (>99%)
JUDD Elizabeth Strood 2a 1158

Marriages Sep 1898 (>99%)
JUDD Elizabeth Emily Kingston 2a 742

Marriages Jun 1899 (>99%)
Judd Elizabeth Hampstead 1a 1375

Marriages Dec 1899 (>99%)
Judd Elizabeth Mary Holborn 1b 1260

Marriages Jun 1900 (>99%)
Judd Elizabeth Abbey L Dartford 2a 971
Judd Elizabeth Frances St. Olave 1d 508
Judd Elizabeth Louise Greenwich 1d 1728

Marriages Sep 1900 (>99%)
Judd Elizabeth Wandsworth 1d 1215

Marriages Dec 1900 (>99%)
Judd Elizabeth Ann Hendon 3a 351

Marriages Mar 1902
Judd Elizabeth Kensington 1a 334
Judd Elizabeth Margaret Edmonton 3a 501

Marriages Dec 1902 (>99%)
Judd Elizabeth Harriett Whitchurch H 2c 535

Sorry i guess this is not helping!
ceri

In fact Julie, i just done a general search for all Elizabeth Judd's marriages after 1860 in Wiltshire and there are only the following (maybe she didnt marry at all)

Marriages Jun 1864 (>99%)
Judd Elizabeth Jane Stockbridge 2c 149

Marriages Jun 1865 (>99%)
Judd Elizabeth Salisbury 5a 327

Marriages Sep 1865 (>99%)
Judd Elizabeth Salisbury 5a 334

Marriages Dec 1868 (>99%)
JUDD Elizabeth Alderbury 5a 375

Marriages Jun 1877 (>99%)
JUDD Elizabeth Julia Alderbury 5a 335

Marriages Sep 1887 (>99%)
JUDD Elizabeth Alderbury 5a 323

Marriages Dec 1888 (>99%)
Judd Elizabeth Sarah N. Forest 2b 1313

Marriages Dec 1889 (>99%)
Judd Elizabeth Isabella Alderbury 5a 400

Marriages Dec 1892 (>99%)
Judd Elizabeth Faringdon 2c 6[56]7

Marriages Dec 1905 (>99%)
JUDD Elizabeth Jane Salisbury 5a 419

Marriages Jun 1908 (>99%)
Judd Elizabeth Ellen Salisbury 5a 454

Hope this helps
Ceri

Hi Ceri

You have given my mum such a laugh because she never believed that they married and as lizzie was very victorian in her beliefs and ways to think that she lived with him but was not married have made my mums day ! ha ha

Thank you so much for your help, as I am doing 4 trees at the moment and with your help getting better each day I will be back soon for some more help if thats ok with you

Jules

thats ok just give me a shout if there is anything i can help with.
ceri

Hello Ceri,
Can you possibly find where these marriages took place for me please.1:James Wilson to Margaret McKinnon 11-11-1914.James was born 1889 in Eastwood,Pollokshaws,Glasgow,Renfrew.
2:Alexander FrameWilson to Jess Freight |February 1922.Alex was born 1894 also in Pollokshaws,Glasgow.Alex ended up living in London so may have gotten married there.
Regards,
Joan

Joan

I have searched for both the marriages and have not been able to find any marriage record for the people concerned. My records do not cover Scotland so this maybe the reason.
Thanks
Ceri

Hi Ceri
Me again !
Can you see if you can find anything on Fanny Webber, she was franks mum and born in devon exeter 1825, I can only find her as a widow in the census's, I have searched several but in each one only as a widow so I cannot find who she married. she has frank and a daughter with her in 1881.

Thanks

Jules

Hi Ceri,

Hope you can help me.

I'm looking for a family in the 1861, 1871, 1891 and 1901 census if possible please.

Daniel Smy, born around 1837 in Chillesford, Suffolk.
Maryann Smy, born around 1836 in Earl Soham/Redgrave, Suffolk.
They also had a son called Frederick who was born 1863 in Sudbourne, suffolk.

Many thanks, Emma

Julie
I take it this is the 1881 census you have for her

1881 census - household transcription
Person: WEBBER, Fanny
Address: 22 Quay Ter, Wolborough With Newton Abbot
WEBBER, Fanny Head Widow F 56 Lodging House Keeper Exeter, Devon
WEBBER, Emma Daughter Single F 25 Annuitant
Newton Abbot, Devon
WEBBER, Frank Son Single M 15 Brass Finisher Assistant Great Western Rlway Works ((Apprentice)) Newton Abbot, Devon
WALDEMAN, Violet Dagmar Nurse Child Single F 0 CheltenhamGloucestershire
CORNALL, Thomas Boarder Single M 18 Engine Cleaner On Rlway (Gwr) Torquay, Devon

RG number:RG11 Piece:2165 Folio:81 Page:25
Registration District:Newton Abbot
Sub District:Newton Abbot

Civil Parish:Wolborough With Newton Abbot
Address:22 Quay Ter, Wolborough With Newton Abbot
County:Devonshire

The following is a possible birth for Emma Webber
Name: Emma Webber
Year of Registration: 1857
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Newton Abbot
County: Devon
Volume: 5b, Page: 119

And Frank's birth
Name: Frank Webber
Year of Registration: 1865
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Newton Abbot
County: Devon
Volume: 5b Page: 145

Unfortunately, i have been unable to find Fanny Webber on any other census or a birth/marriage or death record for her.
Could it be possible that Fanny was not her real name (maybe a second name or not at all) Also do you know what her maiden name was?

If you obtain the actual birth certificate for either Frank or Emma Webber this will confirm both parents full names etc.

Ceri

Julie
On second thoughts and looking at the following census again, it is just shouting at me that this is them!! I done a search and it is the only one where ages fit in, place of birth fits in and it has an Emma and Frank Webber on the others have one or the other. It is still only a possibility but definately good possibility (even Frances is sometimes called Fanny)
It is even the same address (house) that they are in on the 1881 census!!!

1871 census - household transcription
Person: WEBBER, Frances
Address: Quay Road, Wolborough, Newton Abbot
WEBBER, Henry Head M 48 Devon VIEW
WEBBER, Frances Wife F 48 Devon VIEW
WEBBER, Charlotte Daughter F 23 Devon VIEW
WEBBER, Emma Daughter F 16 Devon VIEW
WEBBER, Charles Son M 14 Devon VIEW
WEBBER, Annie Daughter F 12 Devon VIEW
WEBBER, Torm Son M 10 Devon VIEW
WEBBER, Sarah Daughter F 8 Devon VIEW
WEBBER, Frank Son M 6 Devon VIEW
RG number:RG10 Piece:2084 Folio:55 Page:16

Registration District:Newton Abbot
Sub District:Newton Abbot
EnumerationDistrict:18

Civil Parish:Wolborough
Address:Quay Road, Wolborough, Newton Abbot County:Devonshire

What do you think?
Ceri

Julie
If you agree that the 1871 census i posted is them, then this is them on the 1861 census, still at the same address!!

1861 census - household transcription
Person: WEBBER, Frances
Address: New Quay Road, Wolborough, Newton Abbot
WEBBER, Henry Head Married M 38 ... Maker
Exeter, Devon VIEW VIEW
WEBBER, Frances Wife Married F 38
Exeter, Devon VIEW VIEW
WEBBER, Henry Son M 13 Scholar
Exeter, Devon VIEW VIEW
WEBBER, Charlotte Daughter F 11 Scholar
Newton Abbot, Devon VIEW VIEW
WEBBER, Frances Daughter F 9 Scholar
Exeter, Devon VIEW VIEW
WEBBER, Emma Daughter F 7 Scholar
Newton Abbot, Devon VIEW VIEW
WEBBER, Charles Son M 4 Scholar
Newton Abbot, Devon VIEW VIEW
WEBBER, Annie Daughter F 2
Newton Abbot, Devon VIEW VIEW
WEBBER, Thomas Son M 0 (10M)
Newton Abbot, Devon VIEW VIEW
ROSBROOK, Samuel Boarder Unmarried M 21 Engine Cleaner ...Suffolk VIEW VIEW
RG number:RG09 Piece:1409 Folio:70 Page:45

Registration District:Newton Abbot
Sub District:5 Newton Abbot
EnumerationDistrict:18

Civil Parish:Wolborough
Address:New Quay Road, Wolborough, Newton Abbot County:Devonshire

As i explained the best bet to confirm that this is definately them would be to obtain Emma or Frank's birth certificates.

Ceri