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Hi Margaret Thanks looking that up for me. Gillian

Hello Margaret - Could you please have a look in 1871 for.. LOUIS PANNIPER (should read Pannifer) age 24 he should be in Essex or Kent. I have him in Woolwich and Greenwich when he states born Essex.

Hi Margaret, What a kind offer! If you manage to find these 2 elusive ancestors on the 1891 Census, I will be forever in your debt!! Walter Joseph TIRNEY born 1862 Mile End, London (although sometimes says Stepney on Census) Possibly a hairdresser. His wife: Maria Louise TIRNEY nee MOOR (although somtimes Marie Louisa, etc) born 1862 Plaistow, Essex (although on some Census as Stratford) I have found their daughters Florence age 7 in a creche in Stepney and Madge age 2 in a workhouse in Mile End, but no sign of the parents. Cannot find Walter on the 1901 Census either and have never found a death record. Maria is on the 1901 under the surname RICHES or RICHARDS, although she did not marry Alfred RICHES until 1903. I should think Walter & Maria TIRNEY are somewhere in East London, but where??? They may not be together. A person has tried to find them before, but to no avail. I don't think she tried any variants, though. Please, please, please can you help? Thank you so much. Carole PS I have also posted this on the Tips Board, as I feel 2 heads might be better than one - hope you don't mind. I just hope someone can find them as this is my brickwall! Thank you.

Hi Carole I think you've out-foxed me! But out of interest, did you know that Walter's father was Stephen Tirney and his mother was Ann? Walter was born on 28th March 1862 and christened on the 9th July 1862 Saint Dunstan, Stepney, London. You probably know this already but its all I've got I'm afraid!!

Oh and Carole, something else you probably already know but Walter had a brother who was christened on the same day as him called Stephen Benjamin Tirney born 21 August 1854. 1881 census Stephen TIERNEY Head M Male 27 Mile End, Middlesex, England Hotel Coml Clerk Maria TIERNEY Wife M Female 26 Westmr, Middlesex, England Annie TIERNEY Daur Female 4 m Camberwell, Surrey, England Source Information: Dwelling 88 Lothian Road Census Place Camberwell, Surrey, England Family History Library Film 1341156 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 0670 / 72 Page Number 32

Carole - Stephen jnr 1891 England Census Tierney, Anne 10 Camberwell, London Daughter Lambeth London Tierney, Bernard 2 Camberwell, London Son Lambeth London Tierney, Maria 36 Westminster, London Wife Lambeth London Tierney, Stephen 37 Mile End, London Head Lambeth London Tierney, Stephen 5 Camberwell, London Son Lambeth London

Margaret, Thank you so much for trying. They are either mis-transcribed or missing completely. I guess the only other option is that they were in prison!! Am I right in thinking that prisoners were only recorded by initals?Seems odd that the children were apart from them. By 1901 Census Florence was back with her mother Maria, but Madge was in a childrens home. I cannot locate Walter on the 1901 Census either. I have found Maria down as the wife of Alfred RICHARDS, although she did not actually marry Alfred RICHES until 1903/4. On that marriage cert. she states she is a widow. Perhaps Walter was still alive in 1901 but had died by 1903/4 so she was then able to marry again? I know the Boer War was on during the 1901 Census. Do you think Walter at 38/9 would have been too old to go? As I have been unable to locate his death, I was wondering if he died abroad at war. Any ideas of where I could check out this information please? I know it is a long shot, but I have no idea where he went! Thanks for the other details. I did already have them, as they have not proved as elusive as Walter. Would appreciate any advice on where to look next please! Thank you again! Carole

Thank you ever so much for your help Margaret.