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Margaret THANK YOU...you have no idea how much it helps that you CAN'T find her. I think we can't find her because she doesn't exist. I think Adelaide invented her when her and Edwin went all the way from Derby to Liverpool to get married and then went to live in Leicester where no-one knew them. I think Edwin and Adelaide are brother and sister cos Edwin's sister Adelaide vanishes without a trace after the 1881 census. She didn't die, she didn't marry, she isn't in Scotland, the US, Canada or Australia. She is exactly 2 years younger than Edwin and her middle name was Elizabeth. I'll never be able to prove it but at the moment its the only explanation for MY Adelaide's disappearance (I and loads of others have searched high and low and after being a 10 year old scholar she goes) and no-one can find Adelaide 'Rowe' before she marries! Hmmmmm! Thanks again! Lou

Lou mmmmmmmmmm interesting!!!!!!!!!!! incest????????? wish i had such excitement in my tree

Lou I have just looked at the 1881 for Edwin and I see what you mean. Have you ever read Flowers in the Attic by Virginia Andrews and the sequels? Perhaps was written about this family Margaret

Hi All Your derby couldn't be West derby Liverpool - longshot I know but maybe Ann

Margaret Yes I have read them and actually really enjoyed them!!! As I say, I know I can't ever prove it but the other thing is that this couple had NINE children and only 3 made it past their 1st birthday and the ones that did married but never had their own chidren...at least none I've located so far! Were they just unlucky or was there another reason? Ann I don't think it matters either way to be honest....Adelaide Rowe with a father Thomas does not seem to be exist but thanks anyway! Lou

Lou I had been trying to find an ancestor of mine after he was discharged from the army in India for 20 years. I sent for his daughter in laws death cert, even though I had already found her grave. Made the set, so to speak. I found the informant was a brother in law I had never heard of. Found that missing ancestor had married for a third time and settled in Stamford. Found another set of children, he was fathering children at 70!!!! BUT, found his death too. Dont ever give up, one day it will all make sense Margaret

Lou, Would they have gone to the bother of getting married though? If you are right then they lied about their details. Did they marry in church by the way? If it was incest, surley they would hev just moved to this new area and told people that they were married? Nobody would have know. Pat

Pat They married in a Register Office. I don't know why they would have gone to the trouble of getting married. Assuming the theory is correct, they were both very young. Maybe they thought that if they had children someone would ask to see a marriage certificate as proof or something, who knows??? Lou

Thanks Margaret The other interesting thing is that Edwin's mother vanishes after her husband's death in 1898. She is also no-where to be found on the 1901 census. I've finally located her death in 1919 in LEICESTER so am waiting on that arriving. Not sure it will give me any clues but anything is worth s try! Lou

Lou Perhaps if you keep going back you will find that the name Rowe crops up somewhere. Perhaps a mothers or grandmothers maiden name. She surely couldnt have plucked the name out of thin air Margaret

Margaret That's what I'm hoping. It hasn't come up so far but there's time yet! The only thing I can think of is that the Adelaide Rowe I found on BMD was born a similar time to my Adelaide and died as a baby. Were her parents friends of my Adelaide's parents, is that where the surname was familiar to her from? SO frustrating that I'll never really answer this one! Lou

Lou, They didn't have to lie in church then! I can see what you mean though, i would be thinking along the same lines. Do you have death certs for the children? Maybe their cause of death would be a clue? Pat

Hi Pat Not yet...as I said they're not my direct line, Edwin's brother Ernest is, this 'little mystery' only came up the other week while I was trying to tie up loose ends, gets DOB's for siblings partners, for the children etc and suddenly realised a) that I couldn't find Adelaide Rowe and b) how many of the children died extremely young. Add that to the disappearance of his sister Adelaide and the similarity in name and age to his wife, the alarm bells started to ring! I will get hold of a couple of the children's death certs at some point though. As you say, that may give an indication as to whether there were birth defects or whether they were just very unlucky Margaret No Hawkridge burials in Leicester, are there? LOL! Lou

Lou I have just read all the replys to your thread, It was great to see it all unfold and then the twist at the end! It will certainly make a great story in your family history! I think the reason why they went to so much trouble to get married may simply be that they were in love. Debbie

Lou, Do you have any of Edwin and Adelaide's children's birth certs? I wonder if she was consistent and used Rowe as her maiden name on those. Crista

Hi Crista No...I need a couple of those along with couple of death certs for the children I think Lou

What about the witnesses to their marriage? Any clues there? Crista

The names don't mean anything at the moment but maybe they'll turn up in the future!