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RITA - ok, you really got me on this one! lol These are families closest fitting the details: Name Age in 1871 Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Ellen Collins 32 Rotherhithe, Surrey, England Wife Bermondsey London Patrick Collins 16 St Georges, Middlesex, England Son Bermondsey London Timothy Collins 38 St Georges, Middlesex, England Head Bermondsey London John Shay 17 Rotherhithe, Surrey, England Son Bermondsey London (not quite sure where the figures come from here...John Shay is definitely listed as 'son' on the image, but it doesn't add up to the parent's ages!) Name Age in 1871 Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Mary Collins 50 Cork, Ireland Wife St Giles in the Fields London Timothy Collins 45 Cork, Ireland Head St Giles in the Fields London Margaret Crawley 28 Ireland Lodger St Giles in the Fields London Patsy Crawley 28 Ireland Lodger St Giles in the Fields London Patsy Crawley 2 St Giles, Middlesex, England Lodger St Giles in the Fields London Thomas Kingston 28 London, England Lodger St Giles in the Fields London Alice Price 40 London, England Lodger St Giles in the Fields London James Price 8 St Giles, Middlesex, England Lodger St Giles in the Fields London Is it possible Mary was already deceased by the time the 1871 census was taken? While Timothy didn't remarry until 1878, its still possible he was living with his new wife. What is the name of wife no.2 (maiden name that is)? And how certain are you that Mary Ann and Patrick were both still living in 1871?

DONNA Can't find any exact matches, but try these for size: Name Age in 1871 Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Alice Coombs 14 Somerset, England Servant Chapel Allerton Somerset Mary Ann Emery 23 Somerset, England Servant Chapel Allerton Somerset Henry Godfery 23 Somerset, England Servant Chapel Allerton Somerset William Gould 18 Somerset, England Servant Chapel Allerton Somerset Albert John Peek 1 C Allerton, Somerset, England Son Chapel Allerton Somerset John T Peek 37 Somerset, England Head Chapel Allerton Somerset Mary Peek 40 Compton, Somerset, England Wife Chapel Allerton Somerset Name Age in 1871 Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Emma Baker 17 Clanderson, Somerset, England Servant Radstock Somerset James Chandler 17 Radstock, Somerset, England Assistant Radstock Somerset Allien Gould 13 Radstock, Somerset, England Daughter Radstock Somerset Ann E Gould 19 Radstock, Somerset, England Daughter Radstock Somerset Emily Gould 20 Radstock, Somerset, England Daughter Radstock Somerset Emma Gould 30 Hul, Gloucestershire, England Wife Radstock Somerset John Gould 47 Stone Easton, Somerset, England Head Radstock Somerset John Gould 3 Radstock, Somerset, England Son Radstock Somerset Sarah Gould 12 Radstock, Somerset, England Daughter Radstock Somerset William Gould 18 Radstock, Somerset, England Son Radstock Somerset James Halladay 25 Frome, Somerset, England Assistant Radstock Somerset William Lauson 19 Leigh on Mendip, Somerset, England Assistant Radstock Somerset Emma Naish 17 Plumtree, Somerset, England Servant Radstock Somerset Anna Marian Sawtell 27 Ashcott, Somerset, England Assistant Radstock Somerset Name Age in 1871 Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Ann Goold 61 Long Ashton, Somerset, England Wife Camerton Somerset Harriet Goold 8 Timsbury, Somerset, England Niece Camerton Somerset John Goold 60 Camerton, Somerset, England Head Camerton Somerset Mary Goold 23 Camerton, Somerset, England Daughter Camerton Somerset William Goold 18 Camerton, Somerset, England Son Camerton Somerset Do you have any other names connected that I could search under?

Sarah Thank you for the lookup you did for me on the Collins. Could you look up another one please William Wharton b late 1880/90 Railway laborer m Martha Wharton ne Beggs date unknown had 2 sons in 1911 Samuel Hugh Wharton, William Wharton Manchester Ardwick Chorlton district. Thank You Kath.

SARAH - Thanks for your reply. I had the ref. of Ellen Collins et al. in the 1871 census already. I was kindly sent the image. Things looked good. I sent off for John SHAY birth cert. He was born in the Workhouse, South St. Giles. in 1854. Father unspecified. Mother a Catherine SHAY. If Timothy was the unnamed father perhaps he accepted the child later. Timothy's second marriage was to an Elizabeth RICHARDS in March 1878. Timothy's father was stated to be Patrick COLLINS, deceased. Elizabeth RICHARDS's father was a James Richards, deceased. I have Timothy's Death Cert. He died in Aug 1894. According to the 1881 census and family folk-lore Timothy and Elizabeth had a son called John who was then 3 years old. There are three step-children named in the 1881 census. Their surname is RICHARDS. BUT on the wedding certificate 1878 Elizabeth is described as a Spinster. I know nothing of Mary except that on the Marriage Cert. to Timothy her father is a George Lynch. I have looked up on Freebmd and found the following possibly, but how probable, death refs. for Mary or Mary Ann Collins - Mar. 1864 - St. Geo. East - no age given Mar. 1865 - Rotherhithe - no age given Mar 1875 - St. Geo. East - age 46. This could be good BUT this is after 1871. Sep. 1877 - St. Olave - age 45 I have beginning to think that this a total red herring and that I have become fixated on the idea ANY Timothy Collins whose father is Patrick is automatically MY Timothy and that therefore it is fact and not still conjecture. I had used the name PATRICK as an eliminator when applying for the marriage cert. and Mary was the only qualifier. Sarah - how do you keep yourself sane when all about you people like me are burbling on and not making very much sense. I hope that you can tease some sense out of all this. Again, I appreciate all your efforts. Rita

Kath Heres the marriage: Name: WHARTON, William Name: BEGGS, Martha Jane Record Type: Marriages Quarter: September Year: 1907 District: Chorlton County: Lancashire Volume: 8c Page: 1834 I'll have another look now I have these details and see if I can trace either of them on the censuses Sarah

KATH Martha Beggs: Name Age in 1891 Birthplace Relationship to head-of-house Civil parish County View Image Beggs, Alexander 6 Belfast, Ireland Nephew Openshaw Lancashire Beggs, Hugh 31 IRL Brother Openshaw Lancashire Beggs, Lizzie 27 IRL Sister-in-law Openshaw Lancashire Beggs, Martha L 4 Belfast, Ireland Niece Openshaw Lancashire Beggs, Samuel H 1 Belfast, Ireland Nephew Openshaw Lancashire Beggs, Shepherd 7 Belfast, Ireland Nephew Openshaw Lancashire Beggs, Thomas 27 IRL Head Openshaw Lancashire Name Age in 1901 Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Alexander Beggs 16 Belfast, Ireland Son South Manchester Lancashire Elizabeth Beggs 37 Belfast, Ireland Wife South Manchester Lancashire Elizabeth Beggs 9 Bradford; manchester Daughter South Manchester Lancashire Hugh Beggs 41 Belfast, Ireland Head South Manchester Lancashire Martha T Beggs 14 Belfast, Ireland Daughter South Manchester Lancashire Robert Beggs 5 Gorton, Lancashire, England Son South Manchester Lancashire Samuel Beggs 11 Belfast, Ireland Son South Manchester Lancashire Sarah Beggs 2 Gorton, Lancashire, England Daughter South Manchester Lancashire Shepherd Beggs 18 Belfast, Ireland Son South Manchester Lancashire (checked the transcriptions, its definitely Martha J, not L or T) Would need more details to trace William Wharton, but if you order the marriage cert if will give you ages (hopefully correct!) and at least Father's names. Sarah

HI Sarah,Looking for any info on a William Mee and Mary Mee in Derbyshire 1871 census Regards Alan Mee

HILARY looks like first wife may already be deceased by 1871 (or possibly in hospital during census) Name Age in 1871 Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Ann Govenlock 57 Ford N Wooler, Northumberland, England Wife Westgate Northumberland James Govenlock 56 Scotland Head Westgate Northumberland James Govenlock 10 Newcastle, Northumberland, England Grandson Westgate Northumberland Robert Govenlock 33 Newcastle, Northumberland, England Son Westgate Northumberland Did find this marriage in 1867: Name: Govenlock, Robert Record Type: Marriages Quarter: December Year: 1867 District: Newcastle upon Tyne County: Northumberland Volume: 10b Page: 242 Name Year Quarter Record Type District County Govenlock, Robert 1867 December Marriages Newcastle upon Tyne Northumberland HOGG, Isabella Morton 1867 December Marriages Newcastle upon Tyne Northumberland RENNISON, Jane 1867 December Marriages Newcastle upon Tyne Northumberland THACKRAY, William 1867 December Marriages Newcastle upon Tyne Northumberland Hope this helps Sarah

ALAN could you give me some more details please? I could use date/year of birth, where born (if known) and any other family that may be with them on the census Thanks Sarah

HILARY she was easy to find :o)) Name Age in 1871 Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Isabella Govenlock 23 Newcastle Upon Tyne Sister Westgate Northumberland William A Govenlock 1 Newcastle Upon Tyne Nephew Westgate Northumberland Alexander Hogg 22 Newcastle Upon Tyne Head Westgate Northumberland Catherine Hogg 17 Newcastle Upon Tyne Sister Westgate Northumberland

Hi Sarah,sorry William was born in leicestershire and Mary was born in Ireland possibly 1829ish. Regards Alan

HILARY no sign of Martha or Mary under the name Govenlock...but I did find this marriage: Name: Govenlock, Isabella Morton Record Type: Marriages Quarter: June Year: 1881 District: Newcastle upon Tyne County: Northumberland Volume: 10b Page: 221 (click to see others on page) Name Year Quarter Record Type District County Evans, John 1881 June Marriages Newcastle upon Tyne Northumberland Govenlock, Isabella Morton 1881 June Marriages Newcastle upon Tyne Northumberland HOGG, Isabella M 1881 June Marriages Newcastle upon Tyne Northumberland SCOTT, Charles 1881 June Marriages Newcastle upon Tyne Northumberland Whipp, Catharine 1881 June Marriages Newcastle upon Tyne Northumberland

ALAN Can't find a William AND Mary Mee together, but did find William as the daughter of a William: Name Age in 1871 Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Mary A Banton 7 Tonge, Leicestershire, England Daughter Diseworth Leicestershire Sarah Banton 25 Wilson, Leicestershire, England Wife Diseworth Leicestershire William Banton 46 Diseworth, Leicestershire, England Head Diseworth Leicestershire Edward Gibson 12 Belton, Leicestershire, England Servant Diseworth Leicestershire Edward Gibson 12 Belton, Leicestershire, England Servant Diseworth Leicestershire Mary A Mee 7 Tonge, Leicestershire, England Daughter Diseworth Leicestershire Sarah Mee 25 Wilson, Leicestershire, England Wife Diseworth Leicestershire William Mee 46 Diseworth, Leicestershire, England Head Diseworth Leicestershire His wife appears to be very young (have checked the image and that's definitely what it says!) - is it possible he remarried? William is a farmer, if that helps.

Sarah This is them Thank you seems i have more relatives than i new Kath.

Hello Sarah, I am trying to trace my Gt. Grandfathers whereabouts in 1871. His name was David Forbes/Forbues and was born somewhere in Ireland in 1846. He came to England at some stage and was married in 1873 in London to a lady named Jane from Sittingbourne, Kent. Later they lived in Fulham. I am trying to trace when he came to England and where he lived at the time of the 1871 census. He was a general labourer. At the time of the 1891 census he was living in London. Thank you for any information you might find. Thelma Charlton

Karen - what are the two approximate dates of birth do you have? And do you know roughly when he married so I know whether to look for him with his parents or his wife? Thanks Sarah

Thelma sorry, no sign of david on 1871. He may still have been in Ireland at that time, but I don't have access to Irish census records on ancestry. Sorry I can't be more help Sarah

Hi Sarah, Thankyou. I am looking for more info. on Joseph McnallyWho was 24 on the 1901 census. He was born in Ireland and was a dock labourer in Liverpool.Many Thanks

KAREN no sign of Joseph prior to 1901, but I did find this possible marriage for him: Name Year Quarter Record Type District County Donnelly, Elizabeth 1899 March Marriages West Derby Lancashire Haughains, James 1899 March Marriages West Derby Lancashire McCarthy, Julia 1899 March Marriages West Derby Lancashire McNally, Joseph 1899 March Marriages West Derby Lancashire

please, please, please with a cherry on top could you look up a George King born c1877 and Rose King born c1878 Bromley, London. They should have a son George King born 1900. I understand you have loads of requests, so don't worry if you can't. I think their address may have been 67 Blackthorn Street Bromley; they were living there 1897, possibly with Morgan family. Cheers...Carmen