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Hello Gill Do you suppose there were many unregistered births, or are we just the unlucky ones. With all the help I've had today, lots of pieces of the puzzle are starting to fit, although I didn't realise there would be so many age changes along the way. Good luck with yours. Lisa

Hi Lisa. I have exacactly the same problem with my grt grandfather John Thomas Shenton. I have him on the 1871-81-91-01 censuses his marridge in 1886 his death in 1939 but can't find a birth it seems he was'nt registered or baptised at least with the parents i have him with. Looking at parents brothers and sisters now. Good luck Gill

Sorry, got caught up ferrying kids around. Thanks to The Necromancer, Katy, Jess and Helen, you've all been so helpful - and got further in a few hours than I have got since last November. I am going to follow up the Henley Bowlings, but it seems so strange that there is no birth record for Thomas. Will keep going - and keep posted. Thanks again Lisa

Hi, Have to go out shopping now, will check back later. Still can't find Thomas on 1891, no birth record found on Ancestry for Henley, Oxfordshire area. Be Lucky Katy:)

Hi Phew - that's good, will search for him on 1891 Katy

Katy - come back - you've cracked it ! It all fits I would say. The remaining mystery is Thomas' location in 1891. [Nice one Katy ! - looks like our Boarder had married his landlady by 1871 then ! BUT does the dob of 1801 look ok on the image for James ? OK - the image shows age -40- - so deffo same bloke. Also noticed an older bro William staying with Aunt and Uncle 2 doors away. Dressmaker same as his mum Caroline.]

Sorry So excited when I read occupation Fisherman - back to the drawing board Katy:(

Heres the witnesses and bride in 1891 .... Gibbs, Alice abt 1872 St Luke, London Daughter St Luke London Gibbs, Caroline L abt 1874 St Luke, London Daughter St Luke London Gibbs, Giles B abt 1836 Somerton, Somerset Head St Luke London 1881 Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Residence ---------------------------------------------------------- +->Alice Gibbs abt 1872 St Lukes, Middlesex, England Daughter 2 Rose Street, St Luke, London, England Beatrice Gibbs abt 1868 St Lukes, Middlesex, England Daughter 2 Rose Street, St Luke, London, England Caroline Gibbs abt 1874 St Lukes, Middlesex, England Daughter 2 Rose Street, St Luke, London, England Eliza Gibbs abt 1836 Margate, Kent, England Wife 2 Rose Street, St Luke, London, England Elizabeth Gibbs abt 1863 London City Of, London, Middlesex, England Daughter 2 Rose Street, St Luke, London, England Giles Gibbs abt 1836 Somerton, Somerset, England Head 2 Rose Street, St Luke, London, England Mary Ann Gibbs abt 1866 St Lukes, Middlesex, England Daughter 2 Rose Street, St Luke, London, England 1871... (alice is getting older ! ....) Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish or Township County ----------------------------------------------------------- +->Alice Gibbs abt 1870 St Luke Daughter St Luke London Beatrice Gibbs abt 1868 St Luke Daughter St Luke London Edward Gibbs abt 1858 Cripplegate Son St Luke London Eliza Gibbs abt 1836 Bishopsgate Wife St Luke London Elizebeth Gibbs abt 1863 St Thomas; Charterhouse Daughter St Luke London Giles B Gibbs abt 1836 Somerton, Somerset, England Head St Luke London Mary A Gibbs abt 1866 St Luke Daughter St Luke London William Gibbs abt 1861 St Luke, Middlesex, England Son St Luke London 1861 - and you may have Giles mothers maiden name ! (Bishop) - he's a Printers Joiner Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County ---------------------------------------------------------- Edward Gibbs abt 1857 Cripplegate, London, England Son St Luke Middlesex Eliza Gibbs abt 1835 Bishopsgah, London, England Wife St Luke Middlesex Giles Bishop Gibbs abt 1836 Somerton, Somerset, England Head St Luke Middlesex William Gibbs abt 1860 St Luke, Middlesex, England Son St Luke Middlesex

Lisa - Take a look at this one 1861 census, I think Thomas is with the family in 1871, but James Occupation is a Labourer Just underneath James Goddard - very small writing is James Bowling Occupation Fisherman Match Quality Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image James Bowling abt 1801 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Boarder Henley Oxfordshire Caroline Goddard abt 1826 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Head Henley Oxfordshire Henry Goddard abt 1853 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Son Henley Oxfordshire James Goddard abt 1856 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Son Henley Oxfordshire Source information: RG9/881 Registration district: Henley Sub-registration district: Henley ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Folio: 18 Page: 29 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 142 GSU Number: 542715 ---------------------------------- 1871 Match Quality Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish or Township County/Island View Image Caroline Bowling abt 1828 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Wife Henley Oxfordshire Henry Bowling abt 1853 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Son Henley Oxfordshire James Bowling abt 1823 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Head Henley Oxfordshire James Bowling abt 1856 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Son Henley Oxfordshire Thomas Bowling abt 1861 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Son Henley Oxfordshire

Necromancer (there's a name!). There aren't any army stories in the family, although Thomas's son Thomas was in the navy, or merchant navy (2nd WW). The only other thing I know, but am not sure whether it could possibly help in going back is that Thomas's widow Alice did re-marry someone called Palmer.

The 3rd brother from that Henley family (James) was in Hackney in 1891, but with no bros etc with him and his family. Any stories in the family about Thomas being in the army ? Bowling, Alice abt 1887 Hackney, London Daughter Hackney London Bowling, Emily abt 1859 Essex Wife Hackney London Bowling, Florence abt 1884 Hackney, London Daughter Hackney London +->Bowling, James abt 1858 Henley, Oxfordshire / Oxon Head Hackney London Bowling, James abt 1889 Hackney, London Son Hackney London Bowling, Thomas abt 1886 Hackney, London Son Hackney London

jess, are you saying that I should follow the marriage witnesses - or the Henley Bowlings? Thanks, Lisa

Wonder why both witnesses from her side, maybe his family WERE elsewhere! Shall we leave you and see if you can follow those two anywhere? Either to other marriges or deaths etc shout when you're ready jess x

I did contact some of the Lancashire Bowlings on this site some time ago, but most of them felt there was no connection there.

You lot are so fast (I feel like the old and infirm!). The witnesses to the marraige were Giles Gibbs (Alice's father), and Caroline Gibbs (Alice's sister). Really struggling to keep up now.

THomas and henry , as sighted in 1881 , appear to have father james in 1871.. But in BOTH FAMILIES!! Yes, no, maybe?

hmmmmmm - 1881 Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Residence ----------------------------------------------------------- Henry Bowling abt 1849 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Head 7 Chart St, St Leonards Shoreditch, London, England Sarah Bowling abt 1850 Holborn, Middlesex, England Wife 7 Chart St, St Leonards Shoreditch, London, England +->Thomas Bowling abt 1862 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Brother 7 Chart St, St Leonards Shoreditch, London, England With parents in 1871 - father James, Gen Lab (damnit !) - but Henley is on the Thames ... and quite fishable in those days... Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish ----------------------------------------------------------- Caroline Bowling abt 1828 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Wife Henley Oxfordshire Henry Bowling abt 1853 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Son Henley Oxfordshire James Bowling abt 1823 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Head Henley Oxfordshire James Bowling abt 1856 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Son Henley Oxfordshire +->Thomas Bowling abt 1861 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Son Henley Oxfordshire

Found 1 so far.. Henry Bowling abt 1858 Whittle, Lancashire, England Son Levenshulme Lancashire Isabella Bowling abt 1870 Levenshulme, Lancashire, England Daughter Levenshulme Lancashire James Bowling abt 1829 Whittle, Lancashire, England Head Levenshulme Lancashire James Bowling abt 1868 Whittle, Lancashire, England Son Levenshulme Lancashire John Bowling abt 1857 Whittle, Lancashire, England Son Levenshulme Lancashire Margaret Bowling abt 1830 Whittle, Lancashire, England Wife Levenshulme Lancashire Thomas Bowling abt 1860 Whittle, Lancashire, England Son Levenshulme Lancashire William Bowling abt 1854 Whittle, Lancashire, England Son Levenshulme Lancashire John Fishwick abt 1846 Whittle, Lancashire, England Nephew Levenshulme Lancashire Peter Fishwick abt 1847 Whittle, Lancashire, England Nephew Levenshulme Lancashire 2nd one.. Caroline Bowling abt 1828 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Wife Henley Oxfordshire Henry Bowling abt 1853 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Son Henley Oxfordshire James Bowling abt 1823 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Head Henley Oxfordshire James Bowling abt 1856 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Son Henley Oxfordshire Thomas Bowling abt 1861 Henley, Oxfordshire, England Son Henley Oxfordshire *who were the witnessses to the marriage.?

Think i would start 1871, looking for the head (father) , and children with the right name There are 16 in 1871.. Go thru and search?Then follow up all the Sons called thomas? Jess

Jess, at one point I did think Thomas S (with Sarah) had chances, but also found his father had the wrong name. Lisa