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If Mary (Ann) started lying about her age early on, this could be her baptism: MARY ANNE WINROW Female -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Event(s): Birth: Christening: 11 JUN 1837 Teversall, Nottingham, England Death: Burial: ------------------------------------------------------------------ Parents: Father: THOMAS WINROW Family Mother: SARAH The father's name matches one of her fathers! And note mother's name is Sarah. I wonder if we can find them on any censuses... Kate.

Hi Jonathan With not being able to find Sarah with parents .. Well rather Just mother. I have no idea as to if the Thomas and Isabel Heslop are William's parents or whether they are brother and sister of William.. Plus I have no record of any birthplaces. To be able to check the all the census entries for Thomas and Isabel. I have trawled through every William Heslop in Durham in 1861 and cannot say that yes that is him them .... They are driving me potty. Maureen.. I'll be in touch early next week with some info.. you know what I am on about.. Speak then. Maureen

Hi Wendy Looks like this Sarah J Allen is one of Twins when looking at the census image.. Maureen

Hi Wendy I have'nt seen that entry but will log in now and have a look at it. Thanks Will let you know in a moment Maureen

Hi Vera You were one of the first ones to try and solve this one when I asked last October and still have nothing to go on... Well if you can call it nothing.. Lol. Maureen

Hi Kate, Yep I know and this is so frustrating.. I just cannot get off the ground with this at all.. I am going to Library tomorrow so will have a look and see if it was'nt sent to GRO ! Maureen

HI 1871 census I don't know if this is worth anything but I found this young girl with a surname that doesn't match at all to any you have mentioned but the head fo the house has his married Daughter with them for the 1871 census Elizabeth Allen abt 1857 Thornley, Durham, England Daughter Wingate Durham Hannah Allen abt 1855 Thornley, Durham, England Daughter Wingate Durham Hector Allen abt 1863 Ryhope, Durham, England Son Wingate Durham James Allen abt 1859 Thornley, Durham, England Son Wingate Durham John W Allen abt 1866 Ryhope, Durham, England Son Wingate Durham Ligher Allen abt 1853 South Wales Son Wingate Durham Sarah Allen abt 1814 South Wales Wife Wingate Durham Sarah j allen abt 1866 Ryhope, Durham, England Daughter Wingate Durham William Allen abt 1807 Shuckiale, Durham, England Head Wingate Durham JANE HESLOP abt 1844 South Wales Daughter Wingate Durham Wendy

Hi Maureen, It is just possible that Mary Ann Heslop nee Wynn /Winroe did not marry Mr Moore, but named herself Moore/ Moor because of her son. Have been looking for Sarah Jane and Thomas on the 1871, where oh where can they be!!!! Will still keep my eyes open !! Regards Vera

So at least that clears up Thomas Wignall's relationship to Catherine France - she wasn't what we call a mother-in-law today, i.e. she wasn't his wife's mother. I had a look through the GRO indexes 1870 to 1872 but couldn't find a marriage between Mary (Ann) Heslop and a Moore, though I must admit I didn't look at alternative spellings. Kate.

Also in 1861 James France abt 1821 Blackrod, Lancashire, England Head Heskin Lancashire Catharine France abt 1817 Heskin, Lancashire, England Wife Heskin Lancashire Thomas Wignall abt 1837 Charnock Richard, Lancashire, England Stepson Heskin Lancashire James Cheetham abt 1846 Charnock Richard, Lancashire, England Stepson Heskin Lancashire Margaret Cheetham abt 1848 Heskin, Lancashire, England Stepdaughter Heskin Lancashire Joseph Frances abt 1853 Ashton Under Lyme, Lancashire, England Son Heskin Lancashire Alice Frances abt 1857 Heskin, Lancashire, England Daughter Heskin Lancashire Mary E Frances abt 1861 Heskin, Lancashire, England Daughter Heskin Lancashire Maureen

What does anyone make of this one ??? 1871 Census James France head married, aged 44, Occ Coalminer born Blacklock, Lancashire Catherine France wife married aged 53, born Lancashire Joseph son aged 19 Occ. Coalminer born Ashton under Lyne, Lancs Alice, dau, aged 15, Occ. Weaver born Ashton under lyne Lancs Mary E, dau, aged 7, scholar, born Ashton under Lyne Lancs Thomas Wignall, Grandson, aged 2, born Ashton under Lyne, Lancs Is this the same Thomas Wignall living at the house in 1881…??? Even more so with Catherine France Mother on one census and Mother in law on another... Anyone

Thanks Kate.. Could just do with a fresh head and a Fresh Start with them... I am hoping to be at the library tomorrow and Going to trawl the St Catherine's House Index and see if I can find anything on there... The death reg that you had put on there I have seen but there are also around 5 other William Heslop's that have died at around that time.. I have also checked the Durham Mining Museum site to see of he was registered as a death on there with him being a MINER.. Maureen

What do you think of that William Heslop death, though? Do you think it would be worth getting the cert to see if it is him? Kate.

Plus Thomas Wignall is living at Trimdon in 1871 as an unmaried lodger.. Maureen

Have to take a break for now but I'll have another try later. If you try Family Relatives maybe you will be able to find the Mary (Ann) Heslop marriage to Mr. Moore? Kate.

Hi Kate Tell me about it... I'm begginging to think that they don't want to be found... With the older child being born in Lancashire. I have even checked any Sarah's being in Lancashire for around the right Birth year. I have had no luck at all finding a marriage for Mary and a Moore.. Cannot find Sarah's father on 1871 or 1861 and without something to go on.. I am Stuck.... Maureen Glue comes to mind lol.... Maureen

This is a difficult one, Maureen! I have been looking and finding nothing and getting more and more confused. Could William Heslop's death be the one in Sep 1870 Stockton 10a 87 age 29? There are a few possible births for William Moore around 1872. I think we need to look for a marriage between Mary (Ann) Heslop and a Mr. Moore, but haven't come up with anything yet. You would think Mary should be living in Trimdon in 1871 but I haven't managed to find her yet. But I am trying! Kate.

Hi There also is a possibility that Mary Wynn Winroe has marriaed inbetween William Heslop and Thomas Wignall as William (Moor), son, aged 9, Scholar, born Trimdon, Durham. Living with them on the 1881 Census.. Sarah Jane's Daughter Mary Jane is working for him in 1901 as a Domestic Servant... Especially as the Wignall marriage she has married as Mary Ann Moore... Does anyone have any ideas as to where I should go.. Or what I should look for.. Maureen

On the 1881 Census. Sarah was living at Chilton Lane, Durham. The head of the house was Thomas Wignall her Stepfather. Thomas Wignall, head, maried, aged 44, Occ. Coalminer, born Glaskin, Lancashire. Mary Ann Wignall, wife, married, aged 38, born Nottingham. Sarah Jane (Heslop), dau, aged 15, born Ryhope, Durham. Thomas, son, aged 12, Scholar, born Skelmersdale, Lancashire. William (Moor), son, aged 9, Scholar, born Trimdon, Durham. John, son, aged 4, born Chilton, Durham. Catherine France, mother-in law, aged 62, Occ Dressmaker. After Sarah marries William Gash they can both be found living at Chilton on the 1891 and 1901 Census.

Can anyone Throw some Ideas around..... Help!!! Maureen