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I discovered a relative of mine had lied about her age to seek work, so devious :-D

Thanks Greyghost - I've sent Betty a message but I am not too hopeful of a response. It is a fascinating case though.

Lorna, Welcome to the boards. As you've realised this thread was started over 10 years ago. Betty may no loger be a member of GR. However, you could try clicking on her name and then send her a Personal Message - Genes can notify her if she still has the same email address that she registered with them.

Don't hold your breath, for any number of reasons she may not get the message, or reply. Non member, Changed email, illness, death etc. Check your sent messages - if there is a green envelope by your message to Betty, then it hasn't been opened.

Hi Betty,

I realise it is a long thing since you posted on this forum, but I wanted to get in touch as I have been doing some research into Charlotte Bryant (McHugh) 's case, and I would love to discuss it with you if it is still of interest.

Thank you for your time.

All the best,

Lorna

I wonder where the prison got her date of birth from? I presume she had a solicitor for her trial and if so are there any records that you could trace? Did you you get acopy of the programme that was made and if not do you know who made it so that you could contact them to see if they could send you one? Still fascinating

Hi Pippa, The prison registered the death,unfortunately cannot get hold of any papers,government restriction.There was a programme made about it all but again I have not been able to get a copy.My great uncle would like to visit the place of his mother's buriel but was turned away some years ago.He ws told that he was not allowed in as it is in the prison grounds and that it had nothing to do with him!

Just read this with fascination - one of those things that we will never know what really happened. Who registered her death and what details did it give? Are there any prison records you can request?

Thanks to everyone for your time in replying to me,it has certainly made me think about a few different angles that I can try.Best of luck everyone with your research. Happy Hunting Betty.

A2A is a difficult site to search, I agree, but well worth the hassle in my experience. However, I feel that in this case, any records as such, are more likely to be on TNA as it was 'important' - A2A tends to be more trivial, such as Magistrates Courts and Petty Sessions. The other point - when you say her age had been 'crossed out' on her marriage cert and altered, who did this? Normally, any alteration or amendment to a Certificate should have a reference number next to the alteration and that number is entered in the Registrar's Book of Corrections. If there is no such alteration, she could have crossed it out herself! Don't put too much faith in her not being able to read and write - she might have managed to alter this herself. (Clutching at straws, here). And remember, anything which appears on any certificate, is only what someone has SAID - it would be easy to lie to a Registrar, who probably didnt care much anyway. Olde Crone

Hi Betty Others sing the praises of A2A and someone else may well be able to advice you better. Certianly when I have looked, it has cost me nothing but I do not get on well with the site as I find it not so user friendly. May be my lack of experience as I expect to type in a name and get a result. Both A2a and Rootsweb, I find a little daunting. But I understand there is a mailing list and message board on roostweb which is supposed to be quite good. There is another website on BBC website, History message boards, fmily trees with some real Genealogy gurus on there. Hope you get lucky. Jo

The age at death is only as accurate as the person giving it. As has been mentioned, she MAY have lied on her marriage cert ... OR .. she may have given her year of birth and the Registrar miscalculated and then corrected his mistake. IF she was born in Ireland, then you have a struggle ahead of you. Have you looked for her Father on the 1901 census to see IF the family were living in England before her death ? ... she says - grasping at straws ! Elaine ;-)

Hi Betty it seems like she may have fibbed about her age if you can get the years 1907-1909 for births you may find her in this group, as you didn't have to produce certificates to prove your age when married. As you say you have searched upro 1906 with no sign of her I would search the following years as you stated she may have only been around 15 when married but said 20. Zoe

Just had an e-mail from a friend and she has said that Frederick death was not registered until the 2nd quarter of 1936 and it states he was 39,everything seems to tally with him but Charlottes details dont. I will perservere.

Hi Jo, I have never been on a2a do you have to subscribe to it?I have got some good news as far as this story goes I managed to reunite all of Charlottes children last year with the kind help of a lady from this site.

Hi Betty What a strange tale. I suppose the old adage not to believe what you read in the papers is true. The marriage and death certs would have been equally mistrusting for detail. However I find it difficult to comprehend how the cert can say 29 when it is reported as being 33 in the papers. I read the full account of Charlotte before she married and the unsafe conviction too. I am unsure where you would look next. Have you looked on Rootsweb and on A2A? Might be worth a try. Jo

Hi Zoe, That is the correct Charlotte Mchugh/Bryant.

Hi Jo, I have her death cert and she was 29 when she died according to that so that would throw me back to 1907.

I am not sure that she was born in Londonderry,I have had a search done for the years 1902 -1906 and there is no record.Charlotte died in exeter prison in somerset,england.Why she was taken there no-one knows.I only know that her father was called John as this is on the marriage cert,it states that she was married in wells,somerset but this is not true so I take what has been written in books, on-line etc as hearsay rather than fact.It is now known to have been an unsafe conviction but that does not help her family now. I have been to visit the house where it happened, the farm where her husband worked and after much searching have found my great grandfather's grave.I just need the link with my great grandmother's branch,but I may have to give up on it has it is difficult to trace irish relatives.Thankyou all for your replies. Regards Betty

The fact that she was 33 when died in July 1936 limits her DOB to the first half of 1904. Thus it limits the time frame. Jo

The murder. In May 1935, Frederick, who was then 39 years old, was taken ill for the first time, immediately after eating the lunch that Charlotte had cooked. He had severe stomach pains. Helped by a neighbour who induced vomiting, he began to feel a little easier. The doctor came to see him and diagnosed gastro-enteritis, and after a few days Frederick Bryant returned to work. A further attack followed in August and again Frederick made a full recovery. In November 1935 Parsons dropped a huge bombshell into Charlotte's life by announcing that he was leaving. His stated reason was the lack of work in that part of Dorset although the deterioration in Charlotte's looks may have had far more to do with it. On December the 11th, 1935, Frederick was again taken ill with severe stomach pains from which, once more, he recovered. Charlotte continued to search for Parsons in the local pubs but without success. She did however form a new relationship with a woman called Lucy Ostler who was a widow with seven children. Lucy moved into the Bryant's home and witnessed Frederick's final attack on the night of December the 22nd 1935. He once again suffered extremely severe stomach pains. This time it was so bad that he was admitted to hospital in Sherborne where he died in the afternoon of the 23rd. His death was regarded as suspicious by the doctors and therefore a post mortem was carried out. Analysis of his tissues by Home Office pathologist, Dr. Roche Lynch, found 4.09 grains of arsenic in the body. These findings were reported to Dorset Constabulary who visited Charlotte and removed her and the children to a workhouse in Sturminster Newton while they conducted a minute search of the Bryant's cottage and garden. Of the 150 odd samples sent to the Home Office laboratory, 32 contained arsenic. Among the items recovered was a burnt tin which had contained an arsenic-based weed killer. Armed with this vital piece of information the police systematically visited all the local chemists shops to try and establish where the weed killer had been purchased and by whom. Their efforts bore fruit and they discovered a Yeovil chemist who had sold a tin of the weed killer to a woman who only signed the poisons register with an X. (remember, Charlotte could not write, a fact known to all who knew her). The chemist however was unable to identify either Charlotte or Lucy Ostler in a subsequent identity parade. On February the 10th, 1936, Charlotte who was still at the workhouse in Sturminster Newton, was arrested and charged with the murder of her husband. She is reported to have told the officers that arrested her 'I haven't got poison from anywhere and that people know. I don't see how they can say I poisoned my husband' The trial. The trial opened on Wednesday May the 27th,1936 the Dorset Assizes in Dorchester, before Mr. Justice MacKinnon. It was to last just four days which was by no means unusual in capital murder trials in those days. As it was a high profile poisoning case the prosecution case was led by the Solicitor-General, Sir Terrence O'Connor. Charlotte was defended by the well known barrister Mr. J.D. Casswell KC