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I've found a death index for Mary Elizabeth Johnson age 40 Dec 1870 in Derby and also a birth and death index in Derby 1867 so wasn't sure if she could possibly have has a daughter who died at birth

There are a couple of deaths in March qtr 1860 for Mary Johnson in Derbyshire: Johnson Mary Derby 7b 264 Johnson Mary Chesterfield 7b 351 (doubtful). The above is just from FreeBMD. No other qtrs have been transcribed yet for 1860/1. So a look on Ancestry death indexes might show more. Michael's death wouldn't help you. Elaine ;-)

Thanks for all the help. I have ordered her marriage cert to Michael Harris, so as you say that may give me more

George's age is round down to the nearest 5 ... so in theory he could be 39 years old ....( b 1802 ?) NOT to old to have a daughter Mary in 1830 ... maybe the first Mary died and one born in 1835 took her name ... Almeria (Mother) could have been as old as 34 ... so ( b 1806/7 ..... she too would have been old enough to have children in 1830 - 35. Even if Mary Elizabeth was born in 1835 ... yes, she could have married aged 11 with parents consent. However, none of the above prooves anything ! It may be going around the houses ... but a copy of the marriage cert in 1846 to Michael Harris would help matters. Elaine ;-)

Ooooooooh Mrs.... MICHAL HARRIS MANSFIELD Male Event(s): Birth: Christening: 30 DEC 1838 Alvaston, Derby, England Death: Burial: Parents: Father: GEORGE MANSFIELD Family Mother: ALMERIA zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz same batch 1. GEORGE CLIFFORD MANSFIELD - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 29 APR 1832 Alvaston, Derby, England 2. HENRY MORTON MANSFIELD - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 04 MAY 1834 Alvaston, Derby, England 3. ROBERT BILEY MANSFIELD - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 16 MAY 1841 Alvaston, Derby, England 4. ALMERIA CATHERINE MANSFIELD - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 29 MAY 1836 Alvaston, Derby, England 5. MICHAL HARRIS MANSFIELD - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 30 DEC 1838 Alvaston, Derby, England

Somebody has previously found these on the 41 census and they thought George Mansfield 35 was Marys brother and not dad. I don't know what to make of it

Paula. Have found George Mansfield 35 Almeria 30 Henry 6 Almeria 4 Michael 2 and Robert 2 moths living in Alvaston 1841 ............ living with them is .......... Michael Harris aged 20 Coincidence or blinkin HUGE Red Herring ....! IF Mary E was born 1830 ... then she too would have been 20 ish !

The witnesses are Sarah and Thomas Ward

Nothing on 41 Notts or derbys. This isn't much help I know !... MARY ELIZABETH MANSFIELD Event(s): Christening: 17 AUG 1830 Aston-On-Trent, Derby, England Parents: Father: GEORGE MANSFIELD Family Mother: ALMERIA Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. Who are the witnesses on the 1859 marriage cert ? any clue's from those ?

Yes that right Elaine and thanks very much

So: Mary Harris (formerly Mansfield) married William Johnson aged 24 in 1859. She obviously got married to Harris VERY young .... and I have known this before ... I have a 11 year old marrying as well ! so don't let that put you off. I'll look into Derbyshire & Nottinghamshire '41. Elaine ;-)

yes she was 24 and William was 22

Her marriage cert to William Johnson gives her age as 24 yes ??

I haven't managed to find Mary E Mansfield for definate on any census Yes I think she must have died between 1860 and 1871

So, we're looking for a death of Mary E Johnson, sometime between 1860 - 1871 ....yes ? Have you got Mary on ANY census ? Would the 1841 Derbyshire or Nottinghamshire help do you think ? Elaine :-) Have you got ANY of the certificate's ?? son's birth ? who registered it ? it would say if Mum is deceased !

Her father was called George Mansfield and it says he was a 'maltser' on her marriage cert. I'm not sure where Mary was originally from but she was in Pemberton Place Nottingham at the time of her marriage

where was Mary born ?

so we perhaps need top establish how old she really is first. what was her fathers name please

William, boarder in Denton in 1871 is a widower, so you are looking for a death before then. Is it possible she died in childbirth or shortly after George was born, which would explain why he is 'visiting'. nell

Yes thats George with Ann and Thomas Howarth