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HI ZOE I HAVE JUST RECIEVED MARRIAGE CERT OF MY MUMGRAND FATHERS NAME ALFRED LAURENCE DICKINSON AND MY MUMS MARIE OLIVE DICKINSON DATE OF APRIL 1944 THEY WERE LIVING AT 58 FREEHOLD ST FAIRFIELD LIVERPOOL I AM TRYING TO FIND NAMES OF OTHER RELATIVES AT THIS ADDRESS IN 1944 AS MUM DIED WHEN I WAS 3 AND I DONT KNOW ANY OTHER RELATIVES AND I DONT KNOW WHERE TO START LOOKING CAN YOU HELP PLEASE ONCE I HAVE SOME NAMES I CAN GET CERTIFICATES THANKS RUTH

Hi Zoe. If you have the time....perhaps this will test you. I've been trying for ages now with no joy. Fresh eyes might do the trick.. I am trying to find George MORTIMER in the 1891 census. In 1881 he was living with his parents at 11 Chapman Place, St Georges in the East, London. He was 3 yrs old. I have his birth cert and that of his sister Eliza. I know that his father (Joseph) died in 1883 and I cannot find a re-marriage for his wife Ann. George joined the army 1n 1896 under the name of George CRAWLEY. I know that this is the right George because he ended up in the Far East as a prison warder in Changhi prison. I have his Army attestation papers. On these papers he states that his next of kin is his mother (annie Crawley) and an alternative is his elder sister Eliza. He also states that his mothers address (at the time of enlistment) was 19 Upper Fenton St, St Georges in the East. I have tried looking for MORTIMER and CRAWLEY through these pages but always draw a blank. In 1891 he would be 14/15 years old. Perhaps he was missed off the 1891 census somehow, or in an institution somewhere. I just do not know. If you could throw another perspective on it, that would be great. Thanks for your time......Rose.

Hello again Zoe! Ok, sorry my mistake about Elizabeth Singleton not being married. This family have got me so I don't know whether I'm coming or going. Ready for next lot of info???? Someone has kindly e-mailed me some 1841 censuses, but they're not easy to make out. Here's the info I have: Mary Hadfield age 40 Manchester Sarah Hadfield age 14 Ann Hadfield age 11 Joesph Hadfield 9 Unfortunately I can't make out street name or occupation for Mary Next: Mary Hadfield age 40 Barton Upon Irwell & Salford Not sure of address, could be Wharf Street, but it's just an educated guess! Others living with her are: Eliza Hadfield age 20 Maria Hadfield age 20 Can't read Mary's occupation but looks like Eliza & Maria are Cotton ? something! Don't know if this is any use but I also have an Elizabeth Singleton on the 1841 census. Elizabeth Singleton age 30 Chorlton, Manchester & Salford others living with her are: Eleanor Singleton age 55 John Singleton age 30 Hannah Singleton age 25 * The thing that intrigues me about this one is the John Singleton, if you remember there was a John Singleton on Arthur & Ellens marriage cert as a wittness* Maybe she's his brother or maybe just maybe... dare I say it, Could she be his wife? No, then again maybe not because there are no Kennedy kids. This bruise on my head is getting bigger where I keep banging my head against the wall!!!! LOL!!! I'm stuck & don't know where to go next Any more ideas? Thanks a million, Claire xxx

Thank you so much for all of that information, you're a little goldmine, ta Emma

Wendy What was his occupation and fathers name and occupation on the marriage cert and what address did they put on Marriage cert for his address? Zoe

Claire Claire Sorry to burst your bubble she must have been married as she was a Widower (Elizabeth Singleton). But did find this info as I said maybe they are sisters if only we could find a marriage of hers so we would get fathers name Elizabeth Hadfield Female Event(s): Birth: Christening: 21 OCT 1810 Eccles, Lancashire, England Parents: Father: Joseph Hadfield Mother: Alice ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mary Hatfield Female Event(s): Birth: Christening: 13 MAY 1804 Eccles, Lancashire, England Parents: Father: Joseph Hatfield Mother: Alice ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Another sibling Hannah Marria Hatfield - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 04 DEC 1808 Eccles, Lancashire, England *Spelling mistakes occur often Hadfield/Hatfield** Here's Mary for you in 1851as a patient Name: Mary Hadfield Age: 46 Estimated birth year: abt 1805 Relation: Patient Gender: Female Where born: Eccles, Lancashire, England Civil parish: Lancaster Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Town: Lancaster County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Source information: HO107/2272 Registration district: Lancaster Sub-registration district: Lancaster ED, institution, or vessel: County Lunatic Asylum Lancaster Folio: 585 Page: 36 Household schedule number: 1 GSU Number: 87299 Its a shame Mary is always on her own in censuses why don't you try for a 1841 lookup for Mary see who she is with?? ~ may shed some light and might not LOL Zoe

Hi Zoe, My Gt grandparents were James Dodd 1862-1944 Birkenhead & Betty Steens Bird 1867-1925 Hoose,Cheshire.They were married 18 Dec 1886 at St Pauls Church,Rock Ferry.They had 11 children between 1888 and 1909.I have loads of information on the Bird side but seem to get no further back than my grandfather ,James Dodd. I have this from the 1891 census 1891 CENSUS - HOOSE(HOYLAKE) RG12 Piece 2877 Folio 65 Page 52.Administrative County of Chester Civil Parish:Hoose Urban Sanitary District:West Kirby & Hoylake Parliamentary Division: Wirral Ecclesiastical District:Holy Trinity Hoylake James DODD Head M age last birthday 28 occupation - signalman born Cheshire Bi rkenhead Betty S '' Wife M ' ' ' 2 3' ' Hoylake James H ' So n ' ' ' 3 ' ' ' Harry S So n ' ' ' 1 ' ' ' ADDRESS:- 383 Dawson Street,HOOSE number of rooms occupied 4 and this from the 1901 census Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Address:-8 Walker Street,Hoylake Cheshire Bessie Dodd abt 1897 Hoylake, Cheshire, England Daughter Hoylake cum West Kirby Cheshire Betty Steene Dodd abt 1868 Hoylake, Cheshire, England Wife Hoylake cum West Kirby Cheshire Frank Dodd abt 1892 Hoylake, Cheshire, England Son Hoylake cum West Kirby Cheshire Harry Steer Dodd abt 1890 Hoylake, Cheshire, England Son Hoylake cum West Kirby Cheshire Jack Dodd abt 1894 Hoylake, Cheshire, England Son Hoylake cum West Kirby Cheshire James Dodd abt 1863 Birkenhead, Cheshire, England Head Hoylake cum West Kirby Cheshire James Henry Dodd abt 1888 Hoylake, Cheshire, England Son Hoylake cum West Kirby Cheshire Thomas Steene Dodd abt 1900 Hoylake, Cheshire, England Son Hoylake cum West Kirby Cheshire NB Ancestry.com have been informed by me of the spelling error of Steene instead of Steens Name: James Dodd Age: 38 Estimated birth year: abt 1863 Relation: Head Gender: Male Where born: Birkenhead, Cheshire, England Civil parish: Hoylake cum West Kirby Ecclesiatical parish: Hoylake Holy Trinity County/Island: Cheshire Country: England Source information: RG13/3387 Registration district: Wirral Sub-registration district: Woodchurch would be grateful for any help,thanks ,wendy

Hi Zoe, Thank you for your time, sorry if it's doing your head in too! You've come up with some really good info, but it's still confusing isn't it!!! It's just typical I don't come from a family with a straight forward background! LOL! I think we can agree that Ellen, Sarah & did you say Mary are the children of Elizabeth & Thomas Kennedy. Also I agree that Cavannah S Kennedy is most likely Sarahs daughter. Maybe Sarah went to London to have the child to avoid the 'Shame', seeing how it looks as though she wasn't married! Now, what do you think to this idea.... Elizabeth Kennedy, maybe she never married Thomas & Singleton is her maiden name. The reason why I'm saying this is because Arthur Fitzroy Thompson & Ellen named their 2nd son Thomas Singleton Thompson. Surely you wouldn't give your child the middle name of your stepfathers surname, or would you? Oh, I don't know... they're a confusing bunch! Also, I'm wondering if the S in Cavannahs name (Sarahs daughter, we think!!!) stands for Singleton!?!... I guess it could also stand for Sarah, I'm just guessing! And just to confuse you even more - Mary Hadfield / Hatfield - Do you think she could be Ellens mother? If Mary was born 1805 & Ellen not until 1835 - It's feasible don't you think? I know that possibily throws out the whole idea that Singleton was Ellens maiden name. Then again if Sarah & Ellen are sisters then Mary would be Sarahs mother too so why on the census when Sarah & Mary are living together why would Mary be down as a boarder, surely if she was her mother it would say so! ArrrrAgh!!!! I'm going to shut up.... I'm confusing you now aren't I!?!? I'll wait & see what you come up with next! Thanks a million, much appreciated, Claire xxx

your help is appereciate . sorry i got 2 williams familys .mix up.sorry

Hello Zoe, Everything about the entry re John Harris fits except for the date of birth.. Cradley is the right place of birth and a likely place of residence. His birth cert shows Nov 1866 which ties in exactly with the age shown on his Marriage Cert - 29 yo. in May 1896. But as you know ages in the census can be very variable and so I think it is a strong possability and the best so far. Would you mind sending me details of the family he is staying with and the address, as there might well be a clue there. Thanks for what you have done John

Hello Zoe, Thanks for the info re John Hartley. It looks as though he either died young, or emigrated. A trip to County Records Office seems to be a way of checking for an early death in Parish Records. Emigration would create more problems, as I understand that comprehensive ships' manifests were not kept in Liverpool until much later. Regards Bernard

John Do you think this might be him in 1891 Lodging with I think Worton family Name: John Harris Age: 27 Estimated birth year: abt 1864 Relation: Lodger Gender: Male Where Born: Cradley Heath, Staffordshire, England Civil parish: Cradley Ecclesiastical parish: Cradley Town: Cradley County/Island: Worcestershire Country: England Source information: RG12/2300 Registration district: Stourbridge Sub registration district: Halesowen ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Folio: 71 Page: 17 GSU Number: 6097410 Zoe

John Could you post the 1881 census details and the 1901 details and if possible the details from the marriage cert like if there was an address. Zoe Ok found 1901 Ann Harris abt 1871 Gt Bridge, Staffordshire, England Wife Oldbury Worcestershire Frank Harris abt 1899 Oldbury, Worcestershire, England Son Oldbury Worcestershire John Semion Harris abt 1867 Quarry Bank, Staffordshire, England Head Oldbury Worcestershire Mary Ann Harris abt 1900 Oldbury, Worcestershire, England Daughter Oldbury Worcestershire

Hello Zoe, Can you please find the whereabouts of John Simeon (or Simeon John)Harris in the 1891 census most likely Staffs or Worcs. I know that he existed at that time as I have him in 1871 (4 years old) at home in Gosty Hill, Rowley Regis Staffs, and in 1881 (aged 14) again at home this time shown as Coombs Lane, Rowley Regis. His parents died in 1885/6 and therefore don't appear in 1891, so I have no idea where or with whom he might be living. I know he was alive at that time, as I have his Marriage Cert. dated 1896 and in the 1901 census Oldbury, Worcs with his new family. So where was he in 1891? I don't imagine that he traveled outside Worcs or Staffs, but no-one has yet been able to find him. in those counties. His birth place was shown as Cradley, Worcs and date 1866. Be interested to hear if you can solve this for me Regards John

Raymond Could you please give me all the census info you have and give me the details from the 2 certs and I will see what I can come up with Zoe

Emma Now found these Don't know which is yours.. Births Dec 1880 Marvin Nellie Dist: Basford Vol: 7b Page: 171 Births Jun 1882 Marvin Nellie Dist: Basford Vol: 7b Page:165 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you order the marriage cert below you will get mary's maiden name if different to Marvin and also her fathers name. And the address they lived at time of marriage Marriages Sep 1881 Harvey Allen District : Basford Vol:7b Page:242 MARVIN Mary District: Basford Vol: 7b Page:242 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Was this her in 1891 Name: Nellie Marvin Age: 10 Estimated birth year: abt 1881 Relation: Inmate Gender: Female Where Born: Bulwell, Nottinghamshire, England Civil parish: Basford Ecclesiastical parish: Old Basford St Leonard Town: Carrington County/Island: Nottinghamshire Country: England Source information: RG12/2671 Registration district: Basford Sub registration district: Basford ED, institution, or vessel: Basford Workhouse Folio: 160 Page: 9 GSU Number: 6097781 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Her mother?? in same workhouse Name: Mary Harvey Age: 28 Estimated birth year: abt 1863 Relation: Inmate Gender: Female Where Born: Bulwell, Nottinghamshire, England Civil parish: Basford Ecclesiastical parish: Old Basford St Leonard Town: Carrington County/Island: Nottinghamshire Country: England Source information: RG12/2671 Registration district: Basford Sub registration district: Basford ED, institution, or vessel: Basford Workhouse Folio: 159 Page: 7 GSU Number: 6097781 Has a John Henry Harvey age 9 with her and a William 2 months old born Bulwell..**WHERE IS ALLEN** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 1901 Allen Harvey abt 1860 Sheepshead, Leicestershire, England Head Nottingham Nottinghamshire John Harvey abt 1882 Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England Son Nottingham Nottinghamshire Mary Harvey abt 1863 Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England Wife Nottingham Nottinghamshire Willie Harvey abt 1891 Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England Son Nottingham Nottinghamshire Gertrude Marvin abt 1900 Granddaughter Nottingham Nottinghamshire 8 months old Nellie Marvin abt 1872 Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England Stepdaughter Nottingham Nottinghamshire Your grandma do you have her birth cert? If you dont have it here is the ref to order it Births Sep 1900 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marvin Gertrude Nottingham 7b 442 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In 1871 I found a Mary Marvin b Bulwell in 1865 They are the head's in-laws because he married their mother Sarah Cockayne abt 1824 Nottinghamshire, England Wife Bulwell Nottinghamshire William Cockayne Jr. abt 1826 Bulwell, Nottinghamshire, England Head Bulwell Nottinghamshire Henry Marvin abt 1853 Bulwell, Nottinghamshire, England Son-in-law Bulwell Nottinghamshire Mary Marvin abt 1865 Bulwell, Nottinghamshire, England Daughter-in-law Bulwell Nottinghamshire Samuel Marvin abt 1851 Bulwell, Nottinghamshire, England Son-in-law Bulwell Nottinghamshire William Marvin abt 1854 Bulwell, Nottinghamshire, England Son-in-law Bulwell Nottinghamshire ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Same family 1861 with Sarahs 1st husband Head is a ?something? Maker (Silk) Address is Scrap Row Emma Marvin abt 1858 Bulwell, Nottinghamshire, England Daughter Bulwell Nottinghamshire Henry Marvin abt 1852 Bulwell, Nottinghamshire, England Son Bulwell Nottinghamshire John Marvin abt 1848 Bulwell, Nottinghamshire, England Son Bulwell Nottinghamshire Samuel Marvin abt 1850 Bulwell, Nottinghamshire, England Son Bulwell Nottinghamshire Sarah Marvin abt 1823 Bulwell, Nottinghamshire, England Wife Bulwell Nottinghamshire William Marvin abt 1823 Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England Head Bulwell Nottinghamshire William Marvin abt 1854 Bulwell, Nottinghamshire, England Son Bulwell Nottinghamshire Williams death ref Deaths Sep 1866 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MARVIN William 43 Basford 7b 76 So if this is your Mary's family then her father on the marriage cert should be William Marvin.. Hope this is of some help. Zoe

Hi Zoe Thanks for taking the time to look for me. I will follow up. Malcolm

Hi Zoe, Many thanks for your help again, indeed my Nichols had been spelt as Nicholds as you said, and I have now located him in Camdex under that name, again many thanks for your expert help.

Christine T this is them in 1901 47 Duke Street Head is a ?Print? Collector Arthur Williams abt 1887 Manchester, Lancashire, England Son Stretford Lancashire Emily Williams abt 1900 Stretford, Lancashire, England Daughter Stretford Lancashire Frank Williams abt 1896 Stretford, Lancashire, England Son Stretford Lancashire Harold Williams abt 1889 Manchester, Lancashire, England Son Stretford Lancashire Lily Williams abt 1867 Manchester, Lancashire, England Wife Stretford Lancashire Lily Williams abt 1894 Stretford, Lancashire, England Daughter Stretford Lancashire Vernon Williams abt 1892 Manchester, Lancashire, England Son Stretford Lancashire Walter Williams abt 1864 Manchester, Lancashire, England Head Stretford Lancashire Walter Williams abt 1899 Stretford, Lancashire, England Son Stretford Lancashire I don't understand your original message saying Lily went missing and Walter was in a institution in 1891?? Do you not have one of their childrens birth certs this would give you her maiden name and make finding the marriage easier if she was not married before marrying Walter! You need one of the childrens birth certs to clarify her maiden name but I found this Marriages Jun 1886**don't know if its right until you have a childs birth cert** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Skidmore Lillie Chorlton 8c 1101 WILLIAMS Walter Chorlton 8c 1101 About Chorlton district Created 1st July 1837. Abolished 1st January 1925 (renamed Manchester South). Sub-districts : Ardwick; Barton; Chorlton upon Medlock; Didsbury; Hulme; Stretford. GRO volumes : XX (1837-51); 8c (1852-1924). Ardwick, Barton Moss (1837-49), Barton upon Irwell (1837-49), Burnage, Chorlton cum Hardy, Chorlton on Medlock, Davyhulme (1837-49), Didsbury, Flixton (1837-49), Gorton, Hulme, Irlam (1837-49), Levenshulme, Moss Side, Openshaw, Rusholme, Stretford (1837-49), Urmston (1837-49), West Gorton, Withington. Registers now divided between Manchester, Salford and Trafford districts. Zoe

Malcolm No luck on finding that marriage sorry Death cert will tell you address at time and name of informant no sure about other things..people on the boards should know more Zoe