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Hi Pen, had a look through all my papers but cant find anything abt John Hurrell at all regards Karen

Hi Pen Thank you so much for the Craig info, especially as I gave you nothing to go on. Kind regards Wendy

Hi Pen, Glad to see you are back - couldn't fight the addiction any longer? I recall somebody saying when you quitted that you would not be long away! This one is right up your street - William Craven is shown as born Wakefield, age 42 and Whitesmith in the 1881 census, are you able to pin point him in 1851 or 61 please? (He is in Bradford with family in '81) Many thanks, Frances

Frances Hi Frances. Never actually quitted, just took a break from here for a couple of months....feel all refreshed now, lol. Pen x Trying to narrow it down - going back to 1841 - 1881 for my ref View Record Annie Craven abt 1856 Blackburn, Lancashire, England Wife Manningham Yorkshire View Record Harry Craven abt 1874 Bford, Yorkshire, England Son Manningham Yorkshire View Record Louisia Craven abt 1879 Bford, Yorkshire, England Daughter Manningham Yorkshire View Record Walter Craven abt 1877 Bford, Yorkshire, England Son Manningham Yorkshire View Record William Craven abt 1839 Wakefield Head Manningham Yorkshire 1841 View Record Ann Craven abt 1806 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire View Record Elizabeth Craven abt 1834 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire View Record James Craven abt 1837 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire View Record Jane Craven abt 1827 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire View Record Thomas Craven abt 1838 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire View Record William Craven abt 1841 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire Source information: HO107/1271/9 Registration district: Wakefield Sub-registration district: Stanley ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Folio: 16 Page: 22 (click to see others on page) Line number: 7 GSU Number: 464241 or View Record Ann Craven abt 1835 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire View Record Eliza Craven abt 1826 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire View Record Elizabeth Craven abt 1828 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire View Record John Craven abt 1806 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire View Record Sarah Craven abt 1806 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire View Record William Craven abt 1839 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire Source information: HO107/1272/5 Registration district: Wakefield Sub-registration district: Wakefield ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Folio: 20 Page: 32 (click to see others on page) Line number: 25 GSU Number: 464242 or View Record Benjamin Craven abt 1836 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire View Record George Craven abt 1832 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire View Record Jane Craven abt 1806 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire View Record John Craven abt 1830 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire View Record Sarah Craven abt 1781 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire View Record Sarah Craven abt 1834 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire View Record William Craven abt 1806 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire View Record William Craven abt 1839 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire Source information: HO107/1272/7 Registration district: Wakefield Sub-registration district: Wakefield ED, institution, or vessel: 15 Folio: 45 Page: 32 (click to see others on page) Line number: 23 GSU Number: 464242 or View Record Abel Craven abt 1821 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire View Record Ann Craven abt 1839 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire View Record Sarah Craven abt 1811 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire View Record William Craven abt 1840 Yorkshire, England Wakefield Yorkshire

Frances - CONTINUED 1851 - The only one that matches View Record Abel Craven abt 1816 Wakefield, Yorkshire, England Head Stanley cum Wrenthorpe Yorkshire View Record Elizabeth Craven abt 1844 Wakefield, Yorkshire, England Daughter Stanley cum Wrenthorpe Yorkshire View Record Henry E Craven abt 1847 Wakefield, Yorkshire, England Son Stanley cum Wrenthorpe Yorkshire View Record Joshua Craven abt 1850 Wakefield, Yorkshire, England Son Stanley cum Wrenthorpe Yorkshire View Record Martha Craven abt 1842 Wakefield, Yorkshire, England Daughter Stanley cum Wrenthorpe Yorkshire View Record Sarah Craven abt 1811 Thorp, Yorkshire, England Wife Stanley cum Wrenthorpe Yorkshire View Record William Craven abt 1840 Wakefield, Yorkshire, England Son Stanley cum Wrenthorpe Yorkshire Source information: HO107/2326 Registration district: Wakefield Sub-registration district: Bretton ED, institution, or vessel: 1h Folio: 537 Page: 16 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 62 GSU Number: 87562-87564 1861 - the closest match found - View Record John Brewster abt 1831 Doncaster, Yorkshire, England Son Doncaster Yorkshire View Record Mary Brewster abt 1797 Haxey, Lincolnshire, England Head Doncaster Yorkshire View Record George Craven abt 1835 Wakefield, Yorkshire, England Boarder Doncaster Yorkshire Source information: RG9/3519 Registration district: Doncaster Sub-registration district: Doncaster ED, institution, or vessel: 15 Folio: 8 Page: 10 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 61 GSU Number: 543145 His occupation is down as labourer Have you got him on the 1871 cenus? Pen x

Hi Pen, did you manage to get another room decorated during your break? I don't have the '71 but he got married in 1870 I believe, in Bradford so he might give an age to match up with a previous. I found births for '38, '39 and a '40 in FreeBMD. Of course it's the David half of Frances thats leading you this merry dance...

I don't wish to upset you Pen but we were on William? David

David -Frances Yes - so we were, lol. Will take another look tommorow as I'm obviously in need of a break. Back tommorow Nite Pen x

Hi Agaik Penny, This is the info i have on Thomas and Eliza, when i got this i had been searching for their marriage, but couldn't find it, but with the name Eliza instead of Alice i found a probable marriage, going to send for cert next week, but have no info at all on Eliza. Thanks for the help Penny. Best wishes Jean 1881 thomas gillick 1847 laborour allice 1848 mary dau 1870 eliza dau 1872 margaret dau 1875 ELIZABETH dau 1878 living 27 hurst st west derby lancs 1871 thomas, instead of alice they have eliza and mary were living with cullen family. .

Jean ****************************************************** 1881 for ref View Record Allice Gillick abt 1848 West Derby, Lancashire, England Wife West Derby Lancashire View Record Elisabeth Gillick abt 1878 West Derby, Lancashire, England Daughter West Derby Lancashire View Record Eliza Gillick abt 1872 West Derby, Lancashire, England Daughter West Derby Lancashire View Record Margaret Gillick abt 1875 West Derby, Lancashire, England Daughter West Derby Lancashire View Record Mary Gillick abt 1870 West Derby, Lancashire, England Daughter West Derby Lancashire View Record Thomas Gillick abt 1847 West Derby, Lancashire, England Head West Derby Lancashire Occupation: Labourer Source information: RG11/3715 Registration district: West Derby Sub registration district: West Derby (Rural) ED, institution, or vessel: 24 Folio: 114 Page: 25 (click to see others on page) GSU Number: 1341889 ************************************************* 1871 for ref - View Record Christopher Cullen abt 1836 Ireland Son West Derby Lancashire View Record Elizabeth Cullen abt 1864 West Derby, Lancashire, England Granddaughter West Derby Lancashire View Record Julia Cullen abt 1869 West Derby, Lancashire, England Granddaughter West Derby Lancashire View Record Mary Cullen abt 1843 Ireland Daughter-in-law West Derby Lancashire View Record Mary Ann Cullen abt 1866 West Derby, Lancashire, England Granddaughter West Derby Lancashire View Record William Cullen abt 1814 Ireland Head West Derby Lancashire View Record Eliza Gillick abt 1847 West Derby, Lancashire, England Lodger West Derby Lancashire View Record Mary Gillick abt 1870 West Derby, Lancashire, England Lodger West Derby Lancashire View Record Thomas Gillick abt 1836 Ireland Lodger West Derby Lancashire Address - 24 Springfield Street 1861 You will have to confirm with the marriage cert though..... maybe Jane and Eliza were twins, that would lhelp you locate her birth cert, lol. View Record Eliza Dixon abt 1818 West Derby, Lancashire, England Wife West Derby Lancashire View Record Eliza Dixon abt 1848 West Derby, Lancashire, England Daughter West Derby Lancashire View Record Henery Dixon abt 1815 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Head West Derby Lancashire View Record Henry Dixon abt 1849 West Derby, Lancashire, England Son West Derby Lancashire View Record Jane Dixon abt 1848 West Derby, Lancashire, England Daughter West Derby Lancashire View Record Mary Dixon abt 1839 West Derby, Lancashire, England Daughter West Derby Lancashire View Record Robt Dixon abt 1857 West Derby, Lancashire, England Son West Derby Lancashire Source information: RG9/2736 Registration district: West Derby Sub-registration district: West Derby ED, institution, or vessel: 51e Folio: 74 Page: 39 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 178 GSU Number: 543021 Address - Hurst Street Occupation of Head - Rope maker Occupation of wife - works at home 1851 Looks as though they were twins, same birth year as each other again. View Record Catharine Dixon abt 1850 West Derby, Lancashire, England Daughter West Derby Lancashire View Record Eliza Dixon abt 1819 West Derby, Lancashire, England Wife West Derby Lancashire View Record Eliza Dixon abt 1848 West Derby, Lancashire, England Daughter West Derby Lancashire View Record Elizabeth Dixon abt 1842 West Derby, Lancashire, England Daughter West Derby Lancashire View Record Esther Dixon abt 1840 West Derby, Lancashire, England Daughter West Derby Lancashire View Record Henry Dixon abt 1816 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Head West Derby Lancashire View Record Henry Dixon abt 1849 West Derby, Lancashire, England Son West Derby Lancashire View Record Jane Dixon abt 1848 West Derby, Lancashire, England Daughter West Derby Lancashire Address - Hurst Street Occupation of head - rope maker Pen x

HI PEN THANK YOU FOR ALL THE INFO,I THINK THAT THE CLARA KEMP IS THE RIGHT ONE MARRIED TO WILLIAM CARDER.JUST HAVE TO FIND NOW TO CONFIRM THIS.ANY HOW MANY THANKS . REGARDS BRIAN

Frances - David, this could be your guy ??? Please see my other thread requesting help to make out the relationship of son in law. It will save me from copying and pasting. 1871 - occupation White smith - The son in law bit actually reads son by ???? gonna ask someone else to take a look for us, lol. Anyway this William Craven is a widower !!! View Record John William Craven abt 1861 Halifax, Yorkshire, England Son Horton Yorkshire View Record William Craven abt 1839 Wakefield, Yorkshire, England Head Horton Yorkshire View Record Eliza Ann Kemp abt 1854 Bradford, Yorkshire, England Daughter Horton Yorkshire View Record Hannah Maria Kemp abt 1851 Bradford, Yorkshire, England Daughter Horton Yorkshire View Record Jane Kemp abt 1857 Bradford, Yorkshire, England Daughter Horton Yorkshire View Record Joseph Edward Kemp abt 1848 Bradford, Yorkshire, England Son-in-law Horton Yorkshire View Record Mary Kemp abt 1847 Halifax, Yorkshire, England Wife Horton Yorkshire Source information: RG10/4479 Registration district: Bradford Sub-registration district: Horton ED, institution, or vessel: 44 Folio: 73 Page: 3 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 20 GSU Number: 847123 ************************************************************************ OR View Record Ann E Craven abt 1870 Gawthorpe, Yorkshire, England Daughter Ossett with Gawthorpe Yorkshire View Record Charles Craven abt 1866 Wakefield, Yorkshire, England Son Ossett with Gawthorpe Yorkshire View Record Charlotte Craven abt 1864 Gawthorpe, Yorkshire, England Daughter Ossett with Gawthorpe Yorkshire View Record Sarah Craven abt 1843 Leeds, Yorkshire, England Wife Ossett with Gawthorpe Yorkshire View Record William Craven abt 1840 Wakefield, Yorkshire, England Head Ossett with Gawthorpe Yorkshire Source information: RG10/4611 Registration district: Dewsbury Sub-registration district: Ossett ED, institution, or vessel: 11 Folio: 24 Page: 12 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 61 GSU Number: 848397 Occupation of head - brickmaker Pen x

Hi Pen ..please can you find sisters Alice Gertrude Kirby and Louisa Annie Kirby in 1891 they were in Stamford in 1881 with brother John the girls were aged 11 and 3 thanks Lynn

Dear Penelope Could you please do me a look up in the 1891 and 1901 census? I would like information on William Thomas Nelson, born c.1862 in Islington. In the 1881 census he lived with his parents, Joseph and Hannah, and siblings Joseph, John, Henry and Elizabeth. Their trade was paper stainers/ decorators. Thanks very much, Anna

Penny, you're an absolute star, Thank you so much for your time and help. it's greatly apreciated. Best wishes Jean

Hi Pen, I think you have got your own back on me with this one and I originally thought it was me setting the puzzle! If Mary Kemp is William Craven's wife why is she still Kemp? I am expecting to get certificates for William's (2nd?) marriage to Annie, as per 1881, and birth of one of the children to corroborate Annie's maiden name, shortly. I will let you know which of all your alternatives fit - my money is on Able from the 1851. Thanks for your efforts, David

please Pen could I have a census lookup for 1861, and 71 if you can find them, Charles Lee or possible Lees born 1843 Manchester, mother Jane born 1821 Manchester. Many thanks Wendy

Hi Pen Please could you me a look up in the 1851 and 1861 census for Sarah Halton born ca1831 in Leyland/Preston .in the 1871 census she had three chidren Alfred,Edward,and Sarah.not sure if Halton was her maiden name or married name thanks frank

Lyn Plant 1881 for my ref View Record Mary E. Goodliff abt 1867 London, Middlesex, England Boarder Stamford Baron St Martin Northamptonshire View Record Alice G. Kirby abt 1880 Stamford Baron ((St Martins)), Northamptonshire, England Daughter Stamford Baron St Martin Northamptonshire View Record Eliza Kirby abt 1843 Uppingham, Rutland, England Wife Stamford Baron St Martin Northamptonshire View Record John Kirby abt 1847 Deeping, Lincoln, England Head Stamford Baron St Martin Northamptonshire View Record John W. Kirby abt 1872 Stamford Baron ((St Martins)), Northamptonshire, England Son Stamford Baron St Martin Northamptonshire View Record Joseph Kirby abt 1860 Wothorpe, Northamptonshire, England Brother Stamford Baron St Martin Northamptonshire View Record Louisa A. Kirby abt 1870 Stamford Baron ((St Martins)), Northamptonshire, England Daughter Stamford Baron St Martin Northamptonshire View Record Ann Sneath abt 1808 Little Bedford, Huntingdon, England Lodger Stamford Baron St Martin Northamptonshire Street address: 5 (Church Lane) Occupation: Laborer (Gas Works) of head Source information: RG11/3192 Registration district: Stamford Sub registration district: Stamford ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Folio: 86 Page: 23 (click to see others on page) GSU Number: 1341762 ******************************************* 1891 View Record Eliza Kerby abt 1849 Uppingham, Rutland, England Wife St George Lincolnshire View Record Gertrude Kerby abt 1880 Stamford, Lincolnshire, England Daughter St George Lincolnshire View Record John Kerby abt 1848 Littleworth, Lincolnshire, England Head St George Lincolnshire View Record William Kerby abt 1872 Stamford, Lincolnshire, England Son St George Lincolnshire Address - 3 Blackfriars Street Occupation of head - general labourer Wife Eliza is a dressmaker William is a commercial clerk Gertrude is a scholar You might be interested to know that just up from them, residing at 1 Blackfriars Street are :- Charlotte Haby abt 1857 Northants, Fineshade Head St George Lincolnshire View Record Mary E Haby abt 1853 Northants, Fineshade Sister St George Lincolnshire both are single and both are dressmakers Pen x

Anna *************************************************************************** 1891 Margaret Nelson abt 1863 Ireland Wife St Pancras London View Record William Nelson abt 1861 Islington, London, England Head St Pancras London View Record William Nelson abt 1882 Ireland Son St Pancras London Source information: RG12/126 Registration district: Pancras Sub registration district: Somers Town ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Folio: 48 Page: 34 (click to see others on page) GSU Number: 6095236 Addy 10 Brill Street Occupation of Head - House decorator They are at the bottom of the page - overleaf you have the following:- IMAGE READS NELSON, lol Coomlins Wilson abt 1887 St Pancras, London, England Son St Pancras London View Record Mary Wilson abt 1885 Woolwich, Kent, England Daughter St Pancras London ************************************************************************* Now, in the 1901 I can not find the family above, BUT did find this one:- View Record Arthur Nelson abt 1899 Ilford, Essex, England Son Ilford Essex View Record Jane Nelson abt 1862 Little Glemham, Suffolk, England Wife Ilford Essex View Record William Jas Nelson abt 1897 Ilford, Essex, England Son Ilford Essex View Record William Thos Nelson abt 1863 Islington, London, England Head Ilford Essex View Record Elizabeth Shephard abt 1836 Bethnal Green, London, England Aunt Ilford Essex Source information: RG13/1651 Registration district: Romford Sub-registration district: Ilford ED, institution, or vessel: 22 Folio: 20 Page: 31 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 201 Heads occupation - House decorator/painter