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Mary still can't find any trace of them i'm afraid........ with regards to the marriage certificate , have you tried searching the BMD indexes on Ancestry? it is free, but you have to search quarter by quarter so can be time consuming, start off with 1893 and work backwards. sorry can't help much more, lol Jane

paul, having a nightmare.............. still ! still can't find any trace of Mary as a Young after 1871, with or without daughter Elizabeth !! maybe she married again, pmsl ! can't find any trace of her before 1871 either as a Young, Lewis or every spelling version of Terrell !! no Emma Terrell either, infact no Terrells in Risca at all in 1871! do you have Elizabeths marriage certificate by any chance, would be interesting to know who she named as her father on that, knowing your luck ------- someone completely different, lol. sorry Jx

Hi Jane, Many thanks, you found the right Small family, did not know about Richard. Thanks once again. regards, linda

Hi Jane, its not your fault,.. you did your best... Im very grateful for all your help. I have just spoken to other cousin and she insists on the Wales/Somerset connection.but has added that George junior was put in a home when his father died...but she doesn't know any dates or where...she said that she would ask her mum [my aunty] next time she sees her...as she seems to remember bits and pieces.. Well Jane I think that it will be better to shelve it for a while and wait for more information...I will do the odd trawl and hopefully the right ones will turn up sometime if or when I find out their birthdates I will come back to you,for more help.... its been very interesting and I have learned a lot with your help ...thanks again Hetty.

Hi Marna 1851 Southgate James Savage abt 1850 Felthorpe, Norfolk, England Son Cawston Norfolk Mary Savage abt 1787 Farston, Norfolk, England Head Cawston Norfolk WIDOW Thomas Savage abt 1831 Cawston, Norfolk, England Son Cawston Norfolk SHEPHERD Jane

Hi Jane, just wanted to say thanks for all your time and help, best wishes Mary

Hi Jane, Ha ha . . Thank you so much for trying. This is a nightmare and I am sure there is a reason for all this secrecy and fibbing Yes, I do have the marriage certificate of Elizabeth Ann Young. She married on 2nd September 1893 in Newport to Walter Henry Rhodes. Her residence is (Unclear writing) Temperance Hill, Risca or Kinperance Hill, Risca and father was John Young (deceased) who she has as a Brick Maker Journeyman His occupation may not have been correct because she would of found out the occupation from her Mother Mary who is coming across as a bit of a fibber. Paul

Paul, what do you think??? 1881 Charles Wood abt 1878 Risca, Monmouth, Wales Son Risca Monmouthshire John Wood abt 1852 Somerset, England Head Risca Monmouthshire Mary Wood abt 1849 Risca, Monmouth, Wales Wife Risca Monmouthshire ****Ann Young abt 1874 Risca, Monmouth, Wales Step Daughter Risca Monmouthshire Emma L. Young abt 1877 Risca, Monmouth, Wales Step Daughter Risca Monmouthshire John Young abt 1872 Risca, Monmouth, Wales Step Son Risca Monmouthshire 1891 guess what address------------ temperance Hill !!! so looks like your woman !!!! **Ann Wood abt 1874 Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales Daughter Risca Monmouthshire Charles Wood abt 1878 Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Risca Monmouthshire Emma Wood abt 1869 Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales Daughter Risca Monmouthshire John Wood Mary 1853 Yeovil, Somerset, England Head Risca Monmouthshire John Wood abt 1872 Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Risca Monmouthshire Mary Wood abt 1850 Somerset, England Wife Risca Monmouthshire ( on original, 3 eldest children are named Young not Wood!!) Marriages Dec 1875 ------------------------------- WOODS John Newport, M. 11a 368 YOUNG Mary Newport,M 11a 368 still working on it........ Jane

Hi Jane, Can you tell me please ...when you looked up George and Hetty Turner's birth...was it on BMD that you looked or the 1837 online? Which one is best do you think? Thanks Hetty

Hi again Hetty i always try FreeBMD first - its quicker, but unfortunately not complete yet, so if it shows up nothing on there i use Ancestry BMD's as they are free ( even if you don't subscribe), and 1837 charge per page viewed, so if you don't know dates etc, it can work out very expensive. hope it helps Jane

Jane... thankyou for that info..... I have just found a Turner family in London on the 1881 census. would you be so kind and find them on the 1891 as there is a Harriet....[I still can't find any Hetty's that fit]... this family are... William Turner... age 32 ....Horsekeeper ..born St Lukes Rosamond Turner age27.... born Somerset Edward age 4 ..born Marylebone Gertrude age 1 born Marylebone HARRIET age 3 months born Marylebone. 84 Boston place London Middx Now ...horses were used for the cabs ...Marylebone is where George and Hetty were married... and cousin said that there was a sister called Rosa or Rosamond and a brother called William and note the mother Rosamond was born in Somerset... .heres hoping...that Rosa and William are on the 1891 census thanks Jane Hetty

Hetty this is the family you are looking at in 1891 5 Williams place. Ada J Turner abt 1881 Marylebone, London, England Daughter St Marylebone London Edward W Turner abt 1875 Marylebone, London, England Son St Marylebone London Gertrude A Turner abt 1877 Marylebone, London, England Daughter St Marylebone London Harriett Turner abt 1879 Marylebone, London, England Daughter St Marylebone London Rosamond Turner abt 1853 Somerset, England Wife St Marylebone London William Turner abt 1851 Marylebone, London, England Head St Marylebone London LABOURER William F Turner abt 1883 Marylebone, London, England Son St Marylebone London

thanks Jane .. Im getting quite hopeful that this could be the right family.... now that I have found a son called William... I suppose there is still time for a daughter Rosamond to be born.. .but it could have been Hetty talking about her mother Rosamond that may have been misunderstood by my cousin.... anyway I think that this is the closest so far.... and could well be them...Im starting to feel encouraged Thanks very much Jane . Hetty

Hetty i'm trying to find them in 1901 for you, just to see if Harriet is still with them, if she is you'll know its the wrong one as yours was married by then........................... so please watch this space, lol Jane update, can't find them YET, remembering that William is probably deceased by now ( if its the right family), but still can't get the others either

ok then.. will do.. thankyou.. but Im going nite nites in a mo

nooo Jane ...twas George[ sen] who deceased...and William may well have moved to East Grinstead with George and Hetty...couldn't they?..maybe.

Jane, - what do you think??? Oh my god, I think you have nailed it but it is bringing up more questions. I have a family tree written by a great aunt from 10 years ago which my mother gave me tonight. This great aunt got stuck on this part of the family and obviously gave up as all she has for this family is Father = John, Mother = Mary 1870 John Giles Young? 1873 Elizabeth Ann Young I therefore put this John Giles Young aside as i couldn't find him and then the marriage appeared after his birth however your 1881 Census shows 1881 ****Ann Young abt 1874 Risca, Monmouth, Wales Step Daughter Risca Monmouthshire Emma L. Young abt 1877 Risca, Monmouth, Wales Step Daughter Risca Monmouthshire John Young abt 1872 Risca, Monmouth, Wales Step Son Risca Monmouthshire So John Young could be John Giles Young and my Great Aunt hot his birth year wrong. I will know look him up and see if I cna get a match Emma L Young 1877 ? How does this work. John Young died in 1873 and Mary had remarried in 1875 so how comes this girl is down as a Young? Is Mary sleeping around, have we gone wrong somewhere or am I related to the divviest family possible :-) That 1875 marriage looks good. I will write to newport this week and get the girls there to check it for me. Thank you sooooooo much Ooooo Mary ? is down as possibly born in Somerset, England according to the 1891 Census so maybe I need to concentrate on 1851 and 1861 census there in order to find her as a child rather than checking the Wales censuses ???? Ooooo John Giles Young Jul-Sep 1871 Newport 11a Page 198 Amother one I can get Newport to check. Mmmm a death record too John Giles Young born 1871 died Oct-Dec 1891 Newport Vol 11a Page 211 Ok, that is three certificates I can order that may shed a bit more light or confusion on the proceedings. Great work Jane. You need a big hug !!!! Paul P.S I have a letter in the post this morning to newport asking for the marriage between Mary Young/John Woods + the Birth & Death of John Giles Young to see if that sheds any light. Will come back to you with some news

Hi Jane Could you possibley look on the 1891 or 1901 census please for an Albert Ernest Parish born roughly 1887 (adopted, no birth record found so far) in London. He would have been roughly 4 in 1891 and 14 in 1901. He died in 1940 aged 53 in the Willesden district. I'm sorry l have no info on who he was brought up by. Many thanks, Kim

Paul, think i need a big hug after all that, lol i have everything crossed regarding your certs. pleeeeeeeeeaaaaseee let me know won't you??? with regards to Emma, did you notice she is a different age in both census's, in 1881 she was born in 1877, but in 1891 she was born in 1869.............!!! Jx

hi jane, could you please try the 51 cesus for JANE BURNETT abt1843 HARTLEY, northumberland, her fathers name is not on her marr cert so the only way is to find her family in 51. thanx sharon