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Janice Been following this thread with interest. May I just offer a tiny contribution? The Mitchell who died in Gallipoli in 1915 cannot be the same chap as the 1916 Mitchell war death you found. The latter died in the UK and was buried in Glasgow. He had been serving with the Border Regiment Depot, which I believe was in Carlisle. I had a look at 1916 deaths in ScotlandsPeople. There are four Thomas Mitchells listed as Service and War Returns entries, ages 20, 25, 29 and 30. There are no images for these entries, although they can be ordered. As regards the National Roll information I guess you know that is is regarded as fairly unreliable and only covers a few of the larger cities/towns, entries being by subscription. Denis

Hi Denis Thank you for your information, when I said it was definately the same Thomas Mitchell. What I meant was as the missing one from Hulme Manchester. I took the death in 1915 to be the right man, could not understand why the other information gave June 27th 1916 death, and wondered if it was due to amount of casualties. So if the man who died in 1916 was buried in Scotland, did it say he came from Manchester England. It does on my print out which i got from Find my Family, which is a paid site. It also say's he enlisted in Manchester? Also the National Roll of The Great War, I got from a paid site, and saw and saved the image. This gives his address as 8 Back Pump Street, Hulme in Manchester, which is where the missing Thomas Mitchell came from. Did advise Wanda to get someone to check in KEW to ensure this lad killed was in fact the Husband of Mary Ellen Goulden. What do you think? Janice

Hi Janice I would have thought that the war death you found from Hulme was a very strong possibility, but no more than that without, as you suggest, more conclusive evidence. I obtained my information from the CWGC site. No, the CWGC entry does not mention Manchester nor next of kin, but that would be because the family did not provide these details. In all other respects it matches the entry you found on findmypast. I use findmypast quite often and looked at the same entries you found. Soldiers Died in the Great War was originally published in book form just after WW1 and was based on official records and so is pretty reliable, although obviously it replicates the errors in official records and has its own errors. It often provides birthplace and enlistment details not found on the CWGC site. The National Roll provided by findmypast is no more than a digitised version of a book started in 1920. As entries were invited they are neither comprehensive nor necessarily accurate and the publishers ceased work on it in 1922 when only a small part of the country had been covered (but including Manchester). I think quite a few people must use up credits thinking it offers more than it does. The Border Regiment has quite a good website and it might be worth exploring what they hold. It's a pity the Scotlandspeople entries have no image and so there would be a cost in obtaining extracts with no guarantee of success. Perhaps someone visting GROS would be prepared to look at that? There's usually someone on GR who will lookup requests. Just occurred to me - might be worth checking the local war memorial just to see what that offers? Denis

Hi Denis Thank you for all that information it is always useful to have more knowledge of things. Searching for this Thomas Mitchell as been very illusive and I just wondered abt 1914-1918 war, so went to search. Never looked for anyone who may have died in that war before, so all new to me. The lad who died in 1915 fits the family so well, I was fairly sure it must be him? As I say though if he were my relative I would check Kew and would be waiting for 1911 census to see if he & wife were anywhere near the address. Do hope it is him or we will all be back to the drawing board, and Wanda will be devastated again. Anyway Denis, how is your wife? I do hope she is ok as last time I spoke to you she was ill? By the way, do you by chance know when the first electoral roll was taken, not Census, electoral roll. Love Janice xx

Hi again Janice I think it was 1832. Prior to that there were poll books I think, but I really don't know anything about such records. An Absentee Voters List was introduced during WW1 but I think it was just for 1918 and 1918. Thanks for enquiring about my wife. My memory is so bad these days that I had not recalled mentioning it to anyone on GR. She was thrown badly by a horse and smashed her elbow into bits and broke her wrist. She now has lots of wire and pins etc. She won't recover full use of her arm but it's better than the doctors expected. Bit strange when she wears a tight cardigan because you can see the bolt ends on either side of her elbow! Nothing wrong with her voice though as I will no doubt hear when she discovers I'm 'playing' as she calls it, on GR! Lo and behold I typed that and her voice bellowed up the stairs asking me to mash the tatties, something she has trouble doing now. Denis

Have finally got my head round this.Thanks Denis for that as would be better to be 100% sure.Have asked Willow if poss she could do that but if she has too many commitments then will have to wait for someone else as dont want to put on her.I cant beleive how hard Janice and Willow have worked on this.I know others have helped and dont want to leave them OUT!! So THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart to all of you.Wanda.xxxx

Hi Wanda Glad you have read messages from Denis, was going to Pm you to look at your thread this evening. So as I said to you you really need to get it checked at Kew. Still think 1915 Thomas Mitchell death looks good for your Thomas Mitchell. Especially with his address listed. It could of course be the 27th of June 1916 lad either, as from what Denis said his source did not inform him that this lad enlisted in Manchester and came from Hulme. You do need confirmation though, and KEW may throw up extra Thomas Mitchell's from Hulme, Manchester area. Really need Kew to confirm more details, as in was he married, was his wife named, what age was he? Really hope it works out, if not then back to the drawing board for his death. Love Janice xx

I have emailed Wanda, but will put on here aswell in case anyone comes up with anything else. I will look up anything you want me to Wanda, but if you could send me the information in an email then that would be great, save me trawling through the thread.

Hi Denis Just wanted to add my Thanks for the information on Electoral Roll, and say glad your wife is doing ok. Janice x

Hi Sorry I havent added for a while... Just been trying to catch up on the thread and I see the discrepancy in the T Mitchell's for the border regiment, with one being buried in Scotland and the other dying in Gallipoli. I have been looking at around and found that the 1st Battalion Border Regiment teamed up with other units and formed the 29th Division and landed in Gallipoli on the 29 April 1915. Where as the 3rd Reserve Battalion of the border regiment stayed in Carlisle throughout the war. So the death found for the T Mitchell 1st Battalion BR cant be any of the ones buried in Scotland. I think ? need coffee Update Just seen the CWGC site and buried in Glasgow. back to the drawing board

Can anyone tell me why he would have been in the Border regt with him coming from Manchester.Know nothing of regts,corps etcThe date Willow put for the 1st landing in Galipolli ties in with the date on the National Roll of the Great War for Thomas Mitchells death.Everything on there is right even the address which it gives as his home address as his wife Mary Ellen has that address down for the birth of Leo in 1919...yes I know hes dead so how can she have got pregnant...well....Sods law on my lot,its never straight forward! Wanda.x

Hi Wanda x People didnt always enlist in the place where they lived, I have relative who enlisted in Hertfordshire but came from Monmouthshire. I never realised it was the exact same address, I assumed you meant town as in Hulme. Wow thats great. When I said what I did in my previous reply about gallipoli and the 1st Battalion I hadnt actually looked at the CWGC site which Denis had. ( I did note at the bottom about this) the CWGC clearly states the same date of death as the one Janice found but is listed as being buried in Glasgow. I cant see how there could be two people with exactly the same name in the same regiment dying on the same day and coming from the same town.................So perhaps one of the entrys either the CWGC commision or the National Roll is wrong???

Hi Willow and team...On CWGC it says theatre of war...Home...What does that mean and says enlisted Manchester and died Home..27/06/1916? Why doesnt it say Galipolli? Wanda.x

Hi Wanda I know its baffling! The only thing I can think of is that one of the entrys is wrong with regard to its content.....Now I would guess at the National Roll being inaccurate as I believe this was information supplied by the families. The death entry for 1916 is definately the same death as the one Denis found on the CWGC site, and that Mitchell is definately buried in Glasgow.

Hi Wanda I couldnt help it I downloaded the medal card for Pte 22331!! was driving me nuts.....but now im even more confused with an entry on there...so im off to find help

Hi Wanda & Team I am following this with great feeling now, I no what I found and Wanda comfirming the address as where Leo was born fills me with great excitement. I always thought that this young man may have died in 1914-1918 war and was Over the Moon when I located him, but very sad at his outcome. Wanda, I know was overwhelmed with what I found and I only wanted to give her the answers to where Poor Thomas Mitchell may have gone. Denis gave his thoughts and that confused me as I know nothing of Military. Confused as to why Thomas Mitchell who died 1916 on June 27th enlisted in Manchester and his details of where he came from gave Hulme, Manchester. If he was buried in Scotland? The young Lad who died in 1915 on first landing and received the medals as his address given and I am delighted to hear that this address figures in Wanda's Past. Just hope someone can solve the Mystery? So sad that he died, but at least it gives some reason to Mary Ellen's Life. Janice x

I really don't want to muddy the waters again, but... Noting that Wanda has just confirmed that the address 8 Back Pump Street appears on both the National Roll entry for Thomas (died Gallipoli 1915) and also on Leo's birth certificate (that right?) I then thought it logical to search for Thomas (d 1915) on the CWGC site to see whether there was any additional confirmation. There was only one Thomas Mitchell listed as a death in 1915 in Gallipoli: Thomas Mitchell Lance Serjeant 1st Bn. Border Regiment Age 22 Died 25/04/1915 Service Number 10035 Son of Edwin H and Rose Ann Mitchell of 7 South Street, Derby Buried in Pink Farm Cemetery, Helles, Gallipoli I cannot see any other Mitchell who could be the one who appears in the National Roll. The CWGC aims to list every war death so I am at a bit of a loss just now. I'll give this further thought. The other Thomas (d 1916) clearly died in the UK and also comes from Hulme. If he was based at the Regimental Depot in Carlisle then perhaps he was helping with the departure of troops from the docks in Glasgow and died there from illness or accident. Just a thought. I also took a look at his Medal Card and don't quite understand the location coding given. But for the moment it looks as though a Thomas who died in 1915 is the likely one Denis

Hi Denis I wondered about that T Mitchell as well. Yes I couldnt understand the code of theatre given either, does it look like 2B to you, but the date of departure is too early for this code isnt it?

Hi Still looking at that coding. Is that brackets after the 2??? Anyway, having drawn a blank at CWGC I checked the GRO War Deaths to find what they give for Thomas (d1915). Once again the only 1915 Thomas Mitchell listed is number 10035. He is listed as Sgt. There is no other Thomas Mitchell listed for the Border Regiment. I checked number 10035 out on Soldiers Died in the Great War. He is shown as being born in Derby and enlisting in Derby. So, all we have for Thomas d1915 is an entry in the National Roll, provided by family I guess. I'm away for another think. Denis.

Hi Denis & Willow Still reading with interest all your comments. You have totally lost me now with your knowledge of War Records. Worry not about Muddying the waters as long as the end result is correct, I am still going with Thomas Mitchell at 8 Back Pump Street, wherever his records are, I know Not. To have the same address as is shown on Leo Mitchells birth certificate, it has to be him, Surely? The other young lad, who knows, just connected him to the family due to his birth been Hulme, Manchester & enlisted in Manchester? Totally lost as I said, so leave it to you two to try and resolve where is record is. Love Janice x