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Jim that is wierd.If it was 1919 then I would say bingo and query the other.The thing is she married Thomas Mitchell 1914 aged 21 so could that be wrong age for her.What do you think? Wanda.x

Peter possibility there but Brierley is spelt this way not the other.Would that make a difference? Wanda.x

Hi Wanda The Marriage in 1909 Reference 8c 1761 is not your MARY ELLEN GOULDEN. On Ancestry if you search for marriage of Harry Brierley in 1909. You find the following four people who marry. They are John Thomas McDermott Margaret Manning Ada Webb Harry Brierley So Harry Brierley married either Margaret or Ada. It could be your Harry Brierley, but he was not marrying your Mary Ellen. So discount this one. We know that your Mary Ellen married Mitchell in 1914 and had children to this Father. We also have a possible early death of this Mr Mitchell and therefore a reason for her commencing her New Life with Harold Brierley and consequently having children with him. We know that Harold may have been married before he met Mary Ellen, and that he and Mary Ellen may not have actually married due to Harold's marriage. Do Not get side tracked, and do not give up. Your Mary Ellen was far too young to have married in 1909. Janice x

Janice Agree with everything you say above, EXCEPT - Mary Ellen was not too young to marry in 1909. Legal age for marriage was 12 for girls, 14 for boys, until 1927. I do concede, however, that it is unlikely to be her - but not impossible. Wanda There are several marriages on Lancsbmd for Harold/Harry/Herbert Brierley/Brearley, Briarly etc, all giving spouses names - this may help you to eliminate some of your soldiers once you get their records. OC

Hello wanda It isn't 1919 it says 1909 on what I have put on previous page on this board. But I am also uncertain which is why I asked opinion of the rest of growing team who are trying to find Harold etc. Jimbob

Well youve taught me something.Didnt know about legal ages for marraiges.On everything I have looked at have got in my head age about 16 so have gone off that.Children having children! Good Heavens! Thank you all for looking.Putting a few bits together for Janice who kindly said she may be able to look for me at Kew.Fingers crossed his records are still intact.Had pc looked at and told I am going too fast and not letting computer think before I hit another search key.Wondered why I keep getting egg timers following my arrow!.Anyway cheers and thanks again.Wanda.x

Hi OC Well you learn something everyday,I had no idea that people could marry so young.However, when Mary Ellen Goulden Married Thomas Mitchell she was Goulden and Single. It is this relationship with Harold Brierley that is causing the problems, but never say die. Thanks OC Regards Janice

Hi Wanda Replied to your PM, but I see that you say someone else is doing your looks up at Kew for you. Just when I said I went to Kew every 6 - 8 weeks I got sent quite a few PM's asking for help, so if someone is gonna help you now I will be able to help some of the others. Take care, and good luck.

Wanda and Janice Mary Ellen Goulden SAID she was single when she married Mitchell....not quite the same thing as DEFINITELY being single, although I do agree, she probably wasnt married to Brierley. OC

Willow have pm`d you.Got myself all muddled with names.Really sorry and thanks Old C, all help well appreciated.Wanda.x

Hi Wanda Have PM'd you, no problem about the muddle just email the bits over when your ready.

Hi OC Appreciate what you are saying about what people say on certificates, they were prone to telling the odd white lie. I have several who profess to being married when they were not? Plus one who said he was a Widow when his wife was alive and well for some 15 years after he said she was dead. Sure they do it to make us work harder? Janice

Wanda Have you seen the medal card of Brierley, John H? he was in amongst other the Royal Engineers as a sapper. Later thoughts, cant find a birth for a John Harold :-( would have been perfect.

Hi Wanda and Everyone Helping I have looked at information given to Wanda by Jan of Army records fro Harold Brierley. It gives Harold as Attested 5/4/1911 aged 18yrs 8 months. Wife name Lydia Father name James William Mother ? Ellen Brother? William Born in Manchester - B.....? CESUS 1901. Found Harold Brierley abt 1892 born Manchester Son age nine years. James W Brierley abt 1872 born Manchester Head James W Brierley abt 1900 born Manchester Son Mary E Brierley abt 1873 Manchester Wife. Thinking Maybe Mary the wife used Ellen as her Name? Thinking Maybe James W the son used William as his name? Found marriage for James William Brierley Marriage to Mary Ellen Crumby 1891 June Quarter in Prestwich Lancashire. Marriage for above I think? Found on 1891 Census James William Brierley age 20 yrs Son of Louisa Martha & James Brierley Again Manchester. Along with siblings. This appears to fit in with Marriage of James William which could have taken place after Census taken, depending on when census happened? THE MARRIAGE IN 1891 also appears to fit in with the birth of Harold? What do the Rest of you think? Following on from this I searched for Marriage of Harold Brierley to a Lydia? Only one I can find is Lydia A Beever March Quarter 1911 which took place in Huddersfield? On this marriage there are three entries? Harold Brierley Lydia A Beever James Moorhouse Could this be the Harold Brierley to Lydia? How do we find out who is missing on this page? Wonder what Harold would be doing in Huddersfield? It would fit in with when he joined the Army? He would be 18 years of age at this time. Anyone any ideas? Trying to help Wanda. Have PMd this info to Wanda, but wished to keep you all posted and seek ideas. Janice

Hi I'm the Jan who went to Kew. Really difficult set of records to read but it is very likely that mother's name was something and then Ellen and the same for the son - something and then William. It is the family you've found on the census. Jan

Hi Jan Thank you for letting me know that Jan, trying to help Wanda and thought it would help if I put information on here. Thought I was on the right track with his Records and the census information, and other things I posted, always nice to have second opinion though. The Lydia & Harold Marriage in Huddersfield is making me wish the 1911 census was out to see if he was on it in Huddersfield. There are some records for a Lydia Ann Beever ib Oldham who was born in Huddersfield area, date of birth is wrong though to be the one who married. Did wonder if Lydia Beever was named after the older Lydia Beever, and if the oldham connection could link the Brierley to Beever family? Still searching,,,,It is a mystery. Janice

Hi everyone These are the four couples that married Beever Lydia A Huddersfield.9a 509 Marriage 1 1911 Brierley Harry Huddersfield.9a 509 Marriage 1 1911 Firth Florence Huddersfield.9a 509 Marriage 1 1911 Moorhouse James Huddersfield.9a 509 Marriage 1 1911 and its a harry not a harold? be back in a bit I dont think thats the marriage because I cant find any children with the mothers maiden name of Beever up to 1920, which is not necessarily any proof.........but I can find a child being born with the mothers maiden name of Beever to a Moorhouse Moorhouse Alice Beever Huddersfield.9a 440 Birth 2 1914

There is this marriage Cadden Lydia Brierley Bury.8c 995 Marriage 1 1916 Brierley Harold Cadden Bury.8c 995 Marriage 1 1916 and Bury is in Lancashire I think Here is one of their children Brierley Harold S Cadden Bury.8c 761 Birth 4 1916

Hi Willow Thanks for reply. I knew it was Harry, but know a few Harold's who used Harry on records. Did not check for children as it looked like if he married march quarter 1911 he would be straight off to the army. Did not think of checking the Moorhouse/Beever births. So you are probably right looking at the births and what you found. Saves looking for a connection with Beever to Brierley Lancashire to Yorkshire. What a Mystery? Where did he marry his Lydia then and what was her last name? What a Nightmare for Wanda! Janice

Willow That is the one, I am sure it is. The army record gave Harold as born in Manchester B.... The B.... could not be read as it was faded due to age. Thought myself it was Bury, but not traced that Marriage. I would say well done and order that certificate if I was Wanda. Janice