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Hi Jan, sorry to hear about your accident. For those of you who don't know I am the one that's upset Jan's applecart by saying my Dorothy Ann Birkett's mother is given as Janet Birkett formerly Morrison. I contacted South Shields Registrars on Friday, gave the details to a very nice lady who said she would look into it and get back to me. Moira

Sorry to hear about your fall Jan Hope your feeling beetter soon. Mhairi

Hi Jan Sorry to hear abt your accident and hope you soon feel better. Glad Lauren enjoyed her swim. Look forward to hearing from you when you are back on form. Still looking Janice x

Hi everyone I'm just amazed by all the hard work you guys have put into this while I was away. I'm no longer amazed by the kindness of people on GR, I have been the recipient of so much generousity since joining GR. I'd like to send you all my heartfelt thanks, you really are a wonderful bunch of people. I had to cut my weekend away short as I fell in the hotel bathroom, yesterday morning, and dislocated my shoulder, so I haven't even been into Chester as I spent all morning and half the afternoon in casuality. The weekend wasn't a total washout tho' Lauren still got to dive with sharks! She's delighted. Anyway between the painkillers and not being able to move my arm, I am having difficulty using the computer, so please don't think me ungrateful if I don't write to you each with my thanks. I'll be back on line the minute I feel a little better and can concentrate enough to read all the things that have been put on the thread' Once again Thank you all very much Love Jan x

Yes just checked and it is Labourer. Janice x

Hi Mhairi It is Janet not Jane, and she was still alive in 1901 Census in same district. Found two deaths one in 1902 who came from Scotland but I know it is not her as this one was resident in London on 1901 Census & Death is London. Other in 1905 which I am sure is her & it is right District. Jan is not convinced because the age is younger than it should be, but on 1901 census she is resident with family, they may have just guessed at her age when informing on death. Looks right to me though and I would have to order it out of curiousity? Occupation of John Senior I will have to check cannot bring it to mind, think just labourer. Janice x

Hi Jan Just run a Census check on 1861 for Janet Morson age 30- 36 and No Match for her in Scotland then. So if it is your Janet Morson that backs her being in England. Also run check for Janet Morrison age 30 - 36 years in 1861 and seven are still in Scotland in the Sterling, Campsie district? Janice

I hope Jan has a nice weekend...and that when she gets back we wont have confused her even more or increased her doubt. As far as i'm aware english death certs dont show parents, unless one is the informant of the death which is a shame really. I always wonder why down in England they dont include as much information as they do in Scotland and why in Scotland general registration didnt start till 1855 and not 1837 like England. I have, as i'm sure others have, many mysteries that would be solved if registration had started earlier. On John snr, what was his occupation? Do you think there could be any record of him there? When did Jane die? Any possibility of a grave or burial record? Mhairi

Hi Mhairi Not that I know of? Jan off this weekend with her daughter for a birthday treat. Think she is getting bogged down with doubt? Shame really as it has come together so good, still think baby John holds some kind of family secret? Pity we cannot find out more on John Birkett Senior from Manchester, I have a feeling he may have been married before he met Janet? But without his definate birth details and who is Parents were it is very difficult to track him. Even if Jan gets his death certificate and it gives Janet as his Wife, in England it will not give his Parents names as far as I am aware. Janice x

Janice I'm still going with the name Morson as well, until - if ever - there is some proof that it is Morrison. Where any of the children or grandchildren given the middle name Morson or Morrison? Sometimes that helps to determin the maiden name of the mother or grandparents. Mhairi

Hi Jan & Team of Helpers. I have just checked Jan's other thread on Morson and on there Jan say's that on Elizabeth Birkett's Birth Certificate 1873 Janet gave her maiden name as Morson. So there you go, mistranscription is going on somewhere. Still backing Morson as the match. Janice

Hi Mhairi Yes, Agnes did mark with an x on childrens births. I have the birth of Hugh on record from Scotland's People which I sent to Jan. I have just opened it up and double checked and definately signed with a X I second what you say about the birth certificates, Jan knows the births of children of the marriage as far as I am aware and it would help to check others. I have a niece who married in England in the 1980s and even her name is mistranscribed. It still happens you see even when you can read and write. Janice

do you have a copy of this ladies death cert if so you will find her maiden name on ther ive just looked at my grt grans to check for you

Although i dont have access to the full ancestry scottish index, i've been having a bit of a play about with it and by the looks of it the Janet Morrison that Jim found in the 1841 with parents John and Janet appears in the 1861 scottish census. Someone will need to double check it but if she was still there then she cant be the one your looking for. Mhairi

Are you sure all of them could read and write? Perhaps i'm wrong but i though Agnes signed her name with a cross on her childrens birth certs, then again i wasnt paying that much attention to that part so maybe i'm wrong. I have an ancestor who always gives her age as the same on each census with a birth year of 1826 however she was actually born/christened in 1823. Her husband was seven years younger than her and i think thats why she lied about her age. Did Elizabeth and Dorothy have other siblings? Maybe it would be an idea for you to purchase another birth cert to see what that says. The only other way of doing it would be to trace all the Jane Morsons/Morrisons and see what happends to them. Mhairi

Good morning Jim Thanks for looking at this. As you will have worked out I think the Janet Morrison you found in the 1841 census may well be the one we are looking for. Do you have anymore details there, father's occupation, address, anything? Thanks again Jan :D

Hi Janice Don't worry I haven't changed my tree yet. I will wait until I have evidence one way or the other. However at the moment we have 2 names for one woman and each one could fit. In fact the Morrison one does look more likely because 1) throughout all the census Janet give her age , consistantly, at something that put her as being born around 1836. Janet Morson was born in 1833, Janet Morrison was born in about 1837. 2) Lorna has researched this branch of the Morson's extensively, ALL of Janet Morson's siblings could read and write, or at least well enough to sign their names. My Janet, however signed her name with a cross. It is possible that Janet had a learning disability( dyslexia throughout the family), It is also possible that the family chose not to educate this daughter, but unlikely, surely even if she wasn't taught anything else, an educated family would insist on her being taught to, at least,write her own name. What do you think? Is there any logic in what I've suggested? Love Jan

Hi Jan Have sent you PM. Checked Scotland's People site for birth of John abt 1860. No John Birkett as you know. No John Morson as you know. 2 John Morrison births: One 1861 Parents William Morrison & Jean Morrison Nee Callum One 1859 Parents Alexander Morrison & Janet Crooks. England Find my Family: One John Morson as you know. A couple of John Morrison's Located some John Birkett births too. What Now? Not convinced you should be looking at Morrison. Love Janice x

Hi Janice. I'm keeping an open mind here (until I have proof one way or the other) Love Jan x

Oh, right, I understand - thought you had already picked up on the difference in spelling on your previous thread! OC