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Hi Kaz Please drop the T from the reference numbers. The T is for Newcastle T. ( Newcastle upon Tyne) Regards Vera

Hi Vera, so when i order the certificate i ask for Newcastle Oct qu 10b 7? Right ladies i have had another thought... Thomas is in Barrow in Furness in 1901 married Is he married to Martha Beatrice Turner, who has John in 1902 then dies in childbirth with Thomas in 1904, Thomas(father) raises John and returns home to Newcastle and meets Dora marrying in 1907, Thomas and Dora had Dora in 1908(my gran), Dora(my gran) wouldnt of been any of the wiser as to Dora(mother) not reallt being Johns real mum as she grew up, my gran did tell my mum that John was born out of wed-lock, mum is trying to get hold of her cousin(Johns daughter) to get his DOB, this would confirm if it is indeed John Riley jul qu 1902 10b 284 to Thomas and Martha, along with ordering Thomas 10b 7 i think maybe i need to order John 10b 284 too. Does that all make sense? Regards Kaz x

I don't think the one in Barrow has any connection. Any child of Thomas and Martha born after the 1901 census would be legitimate. Cannot find a death of Martha Riley. I gather Thomas said he was a batchelor when he married Dora. When you order the cert you need year 1873 qtr Dec District Newcastle Upon Tyne vol 10b Page 7 I think you will find that John would be born shortly after his parents marriage. You might have to accept the fact that Thomas was one of the people missing from the 1901 census.

Hi Kaz, Looking on the image there is just number 7 so I am going to stick my neck out and say Volume 10B ( doesn't matter if the B is top or bottom case) and Page 7 Please, please let me know what happens. Regards Vera

Hi Andrea, I think you were the first to discover this Thomas William Riley Born Dec Qtr. Just been checking on this thread. Regards Vera

Hi, Wow - what a lot of developments! I agree that Thomas William b 1873 Dec looks like the right one - you can state that you only want the birth certificate if the father is John and the mother is Bridget. Re: Thomas and Martha. Have you requested their marriage certificate - you can state you only want it if Thomas' parents were John and Bridget etc. Just because we can't find a death entry for her, doesn't mean that she didn't die - she could have used any name. I think the best way forward here is to have a look at the parish records for that area - looking at births, marriages and deaths (inc. those of any children Thomas and Martha may have had). It is possible that when Thomas married Dora, that he was still married to Dora - not many could afford to get divorced as it was expensive, so some did claim to be single when they were not. Regards Rachel

Good evening Ladies, been to my mums for tea and just back(usual for a wednesday), had chat with mum and decided we going to order thomas 10b 7 stating Father John and Mother Bridget, mum going to try and get her cousin(John;s daughter) on the phone tonight(mums thinks she might b away abroad for wedding aniv) she was told they were going sometime this month by her, if the birth ref fits any refs i have i will send off for cert,if not il then know that Thomas and Dora WAS his parents for sure, bit worrying if she gives me details of what i have re Martha and Thomas incase she doesnt know, will have to wait and see when mum gets a hold of her, fingers crossed it will be soon, in the mean time i will send for Thomas Cert and search the BMD on what i have uptil now and also find out where Thoams was from 1891-1907 if the Thomas barrow isnt him.. Once i have correct details i will most definately let you all know, i thank each and every one of you from the bottom of my heart for all the help, efforts and advice, it has been great help to me and its most appreciated. Fondest Regards Kaz xx

Hi Kaz, Hope you had a good day with your Mum. Good Luck with the research. I wait with bated breath !!! Regards Vera

Hi Vera, ye had a good day thanks, dont get alot of time to chat alone when all 5 kids are there too but still enjoy it. You and me both waiting, im itching to find out...thanks Kaz xx

Hi Kaz, Had to reply. You certainly have your hands full......5 children....my gosh...where do you get the time to family tree!! Regards Vera

Hi Vera, ive just got 3 kids, 20 17 and 11 other 2 are my brothers, we all meet on a wednesday at mum and dads for tea, we have done it for years...so iv plenty time really, just got my youngest to think about now really, the other 2 do their own thing(never see them,lol), i dont work either cos of a back problem and had surgery couple of months ago...Regards Kaz PS: ordered Thomas William Riley 10b 7 last night...so its a waiting game now for the postie!

Hi Rachel, Andrea Vera, got a question for yous. i was looking for James Joseph Abt 1876 (Thomas William's brother) in the 1901 (couldnt find Thomas Mind, apart from in Barrow) and i found a James Riley 25 as Head in Newcastle along with Kate(sister) 27, John(brother) 22, Mary(sister) 20 and Maggie(sister) 19 all single, could this be Thomas's siblings, in 1881 there was just Thomas John and James, could this be them now with sisters? Regards Kaz

Hi, In the 1881 cencus, Thomas's brother John is down as born abt 1872, hes 9 at the time of household taken, what i have found in the 1901 for James riley, John is 22 born abt 1879, im trying to work out if this is the same John, has there been an error in the transcript or have i got the wrong James? Kind regards Kaz x

In 1891 the family you mention are children of Denis Riley so not the same. I have a feeling that the Rileys were still living together in 1901 and have been missed off or terribly mistranscribed. I think that Thomas's brother John who is given as John R in 1881 is actually John Peter - there is one registered Dec qtr 1871. John Peter marries in 1903 so he should be around somewhere. Can't find any trace of James Joseph.

Hi Andrea, how do you know Denis is the father to who i have found? So John P could be John Peter then, this is all very hard to work out sometimes, i thought when i found this family that the girls were born after the cencus was taken therefore they didnt show in the house hold. I have found a doc on a James(born Newcastle) in army medical corps in Australia, he signe up on 8th aug 1917, says he was 32(does add for his birth year tho) John Riley is down as his father, father address on cert is in Fremantle. Mum was told by her mum(my gran) that a family member went to Oz but we dont know, my gran wanted to go but her dad( Thomas) wouldnt sign the papers saying she was too young...kaz x

Hi all, Found James Joseph birth 1875 Oct qu newcastle 10b 34, On the Certificate i found on a James Joseph born Newcastle with Father John Riley as next off kin he is down as 32, could there be a possibility that this is him and he has lied about his age to get in to the Army medical Corps? Regards Kaz

Nudging to see if anyone has advice or thought on my last post, regards Kaz

Going back to the family you found in 1901, I found them in 1891 and they are with their father called Denis so they are a totally different family. The James in Australia won't be the right one unless his father had emigrated and lived in Freemantle.

Hi Andrea, i did wonder if his father emigrated to Fremantle,James signed up for the medical corps, in the 1891 cencus he is down as 15 and a Doctor something, this also makes me think it could be him, how would i find out if he did or not?Maybe both he and Bridget went or he went alone as a result of her death?? Kaz

Hi Kaz, Sorry to hear about your back and the op., hope things are progressing well. Sorry about the mistake with the number of children!!! On the 1891 census it looks to me like Doctors Page. !! Regards Vera