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Andrea, that is the family i have asked for, why would they put a cross through the vol number and write a new number beside it?

1891 Name: Thomas Riley Age: 17 Estimated birth year: abt 1874 Relation: Brother Gender: Male Where born: Newcastle, Northumberland, England Civil parish: All Saints Ecclesiastical parish: Christ Church Town: Newcastle Upon Tyne County/Island: Northumberland Country: England Registration district: Newcastle Upon Tyne Sub-registration district: All Saints ED, institution, or vessel: 13 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age John Riley 19 brass moulder Thomas Riley 17 upholsterer's clerk James Riley 15 Doctor's Page (that's what it looks like) Mary Mc Cormack 36 cousin housekeeper b Ireland Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 4212; Folio 75; Page 14; GSU roll: 6099322. That makes a lot more sense of Thomas being a book keeper

Hello again Andrea, i am starting to wonder if the marriage cert has been copied/written wrong as like you said if he was 30 at time of mariage in 1907 that would make his birth year 1877, there is a Thomas Riley Newcastle in 1901 age 20 in Newcastle as a bricklayers labourer, the John Riley i have with Ellen as his parents now John was a bricklayers labourer so is it possible i have got the right family? getting confused again, have they just put the wrong year on his certificate 74 instead of 77??

There is a Thomas William Riley registered in Newcastle in Dec qtr of 1873. The other one was 1874. I suppose if they thought you wanted one born definitely 1874 with possible parents John and Bridget rather than definite parents but approx year. Do you think they might give you the right one if you got in touch and explained?

Andrea, we now have to refs that could be them, what you have found with the book-keeper and what his father done and what i have just found in 1901 with him being a brick-layer same as the john i found with Ellen..am getting even more confused now, dont know which Thoms/John to go with now..

Having had a look at Thomas's marriage ref he was married as Thomas William so you need the birth of a Thomas William not just Thomas. He might have taken a few years off his age when he married as he was a few years older than his wife and I have read that a big gap was frowned upon. For what it's worth I think that the son of John and Bridget is the one - bricklayer's labourers do not usual become book keepers. Book keepers need to be able to read and write reasonably well

Hi Andrea, sorry iv been away so long, had mum on the phone with ihfo, trying to sort this out...Right, have come to the conclusion that...when i asked mum to find and order the cert when she was at the GRO with ref Newcastle T 10b 7 for a Thomas William she couldnt find it and asked a lady for help,the lady told her that what i had given her may have been a miss print (mum couldnt find it on the microfilm) there for mum found a Thomas Newcastle T10 94 and ordered it, when certificate arrived the Vol T10 had been changed to 108, reason being it didnt match the page number of the book so they have sent me cert for 108 94 making Thomas William (original) just Thomas 1874 with John and Ellen( i asked for mother Bridget), also mum told me on phone that when Thomas's second daughter Angilina married on her marriage certificate it states he was a shipyard labourerer and on her birth certificate( 20/9/1910) address is 46 Clydesdale road, byker, on the back of the cert it has other addresses, maybe other places she once lived as a child. So looks like the John and Bridget you have sent me tonight(my original family) is the ones im looking. What alot of confusion and its the lady at the GRO that started it all and my mum ordered a cert that she thought was right, lol...Kaz

nudge for Andrea, Rachel and Vera

That makes more sense. If your Mum looked in 1874 she wouldn't find the correct one as it was 1873. The ref to the one she found is Newcastle T. 10b 94 (not 108) and the T goes with the Newcastle (for Newcastle upon Tyne)and not with the number which is why they would change it. It's still possible that this isn't the right one as you can't say for certain that this Thomas William is the one who married in 1907 - can't think of anything to try at present. Who were the witnesses on Thomas' marriage? Any Rileys?

Hi Andrea, when mum went for the certificate T10 94 it was just for a Thomas Riley, the one i asked for T10 7 was for a Thomas William as thats the name it states on the marriage certificate i have for him..i search again last night and there were only 4 Thomas William's 1:1873, 2:1885, 3:1902, 4:1903 so with Thomas William being 30 on marriage certificate 1873 birth must be the right one, i think he has lied about his age when married in 1907, think he was only 25-26. The marriage certificate is the right one as Thomas's wife Dora has the right parents on it.Trying to start at the beginning again and keep getting taken back to Thomas with John and Bridget, regards Kaz x

Hi Kaz, Just checking... Was this Thomas Riley you really wanted? Birth Dec 1873 Thomas William Riley Newcastle T. VOL. 10B Page 7. Your mum asked for T10 etc...is that right. Did the lady check 10B 7. Regards Vera

Andrea, got John in 1881 age 39(mayo,Ireland abt 1842)clerk Army pensioner(Com CIK) what does that mean? with his wife Bridget 37(Roscommon, Ireland), John 9Thomas 7 James jos 5 and John R all born Newcastle, then in 1891 Thomas 17 is brother John 19 Brass Moulder, Thomas Upholsterer Clerk( followed his father) James Doctors Page(?) and a cousin Mary McCormack(cousin, b Ireland)so now im trying to find out what happened from 1891- 1907. Still wondering about the Thomas in 1901 as boarder married Gun Machinist in Barrow in Furness though and the prisoner in 1891 in Newcastle. Kaz

Hi Vera, i was going by the marriage certifcate, marriage 1907 age 30 making brith year 1877, cant find a birth for 1877 closest 1873, making me think may have lied about his age when married, ref for Thomas William Riley T10 7..mum couldnt find it on microfilm, asked, lady said, maybe misprint on comp and could be T10 94, when certificate came along with description of what was asked for it reads: 1874 Jun qu Morpeth/Newcastle T10 94, T10 has a line thro it and 108 or 10B is written underneath, looked on comp again last night and came up with closest to 1877 was 1873 T10 7, asked mum for T10 7 but shes looked for 1874 and couldnt find it with T10 7 instead found 1874 108/10B 94, does that all make sense? Mums not really up on all this so think maybe i have confused her in some way and she does looked for what was closest to what i said and the lady has also added to her confusion...still think it maybe Thomas William T10 7 !1873?? What do you think? Kaz

Hi Kaz, For Reference Births Dec 1873 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Riley Thomas William Newcastle T. 10b 7 The T is for upon Tyne, it has nothing to do with the volume and page number On the image on FreeBMD the volume is 10B and the page is 7. I wonder what his parents names are!!! Regards Vera

Kaz, Have been following the threads. I think Vera has found the right Thomas William Riley Birth Dec 1873 Thomas William Riley Newcastle T. VOL. 10B Page 7. Don't forget people did lie about their ages when it comes to censuses and marriage. Death certificates are not always reliable as the informant says how old the person is. I think you should order the above birth certificate for Thomas William Riley. Its sounds like there has been confusion with the lady from GRO and your mum. You have worked your way through the information; and although you have to start from the beginning - at least you are a bit wiser and know which families aren't connected with yours. My recommendation for now is that you order Thomas William Riley's birth certificate. It might be worthwhile checking Thomas and Dora's marriage certificate - if Thomas' full name is Thomas William, you know you are sending for the right certificate. Hope this makes sense. Regards Rachel

Hi Andrea, Vera, lost the site for a bit there but back on again, just sat and wrote things down this is what i have got so far; Thomas William Riley b; Oct qu 1873- Newcastle. 1881 Thomas age 7 with John 39 Father b abt 1842 Mayo Ireland, Clerk Army Pensioner (com CIK) dont know what letters in brackets means. Bridget 37 b abt 1844 Roscommon Ireland John R 9 b abt 1872 Newcastle James Jos 5 b abt 1876 all living at 46 Grainger St Newcastle 1891 Thomas 17 Upholster;s clerk ( father clerk in 1881 cencus) with John 19 Brass Moulder James 15 Doctors page(thats what it looks like) Mary McCormack 36 cousin b Ireland( presume father John;s cousin, he would now be 49 if still living) 1901 searched for Thomas William/Thomas 1873-1877 and all that came up was; Thomas 28 b Newcastle, married,Boarder, Gun(Geen) Machinist living at 15 Hindpool Road Barrow in Furness Now need to find/work out where he was between 1901 and 1907 before he married Dora Leathead/Leathart on 29/jul 1907. Thomas and Dora had 7 children John either jul qu 1902 or 18th aug 1907( mum always told me that he was conceived/born out of wedlock) Dora(my gran) 1908-1976 Norman 1909 Angelina 1910 Ernest(cant find him yet, but trying to get in touch with his daughter) Harry 1912 Sidney ( not found him yet, mum trying to get hold of his son) So ladies what do you make of all that??? With only 1 Thomas find in 1901 this now take me back to the possible 1st and second marriages with Elizabeth and Martha again,lol

Hi rachel, there has been alot going on ah, my heads in a whirl, so Thomas William Riley could either be 1873 T10 7 or 10b 7?? so really i need to find out which obe it is and find parents for both and see which one has a father John.. Vera, i havnt found that ref for Thomas, only T10 7... Wonder if i am going to have to order both cert and hope that only one has a father John!!

Just has another look at the order form that came with cert 108/10B 94 10B is also 10b, we are looking for page 7, lady at GRO told mum to change page 7 to page 94 giving me the wrong man therefore wrong cert wrong parents even though father is still John.

haha hehe, just realised what i have found Oct qu 1873 T 10b 7 is the same as what Vera found born Dec 1873 T 10B 7, lol what am i like!!!!!! sitting giggling here!!! We are all on same man, need his parents now, well his mother cos know from mum his father was John and he came from Ireland....It must be Bridget!!!! Think my 2am's are catching up on me...lol

haha hehe, just realised what i have found Oct qu 1873 T 10b 7 is the same as what Vera found born Dec 1873 T 10B 7, lol what am i like!!!!!! sitting giggling here!!! We are all on same man, need his parents now, well his mother cos know from mum his father was John and he came from Ireland....It must be Bridget!!!! Think my 2am's are catching up on me...lol